This is the build that I am following: http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simulator/build/h66m9n4sy2/
-That skills distribution is fine? or can you give me some suggestions about the skills?
-What kind of gems works better for the weapon? green or red?
-Leather set or Plate set? Currently i’m using Leather for the dps thing, but the enemies hit me really hard in CM and in dungeons.
-Full DEX or Full STR? Currently I’m full STR
-Phada or Sissel?
Thanks!
Strongly recommend 1 skill point into Helm Chopper because it deals stun at high chance. Cleave deals additional damage to stunned enemies.
Pouncing is, unfortunately, a very weak skill. I would take those points and put them back into Cleave or Giant Swing.
Strongly recommend you take 3 circles of Doppel as soon as you can. This means: don’t leave Doppel 3 for rank 9. Take Doppel 3 at rank 8 and Barb 3 at rank 9.
Zucken is a “weak” skill compared to the rest of Doppel’s arsenal. I would personally take it out and use those 6 skill points into Cyclone.
Redel is a pretty strong skill but has limited area, making it useful mostly against bosses. If you want a more AoE dps build, leave Redel lv 6 and use those 2 remaining points into Cyclone.
Shinobi is a superb class to fit in Doppel build. You should strongly consider taking it at rank 9 instead of barbarian 3, which tbh, doesn’t aggregate much.
With the upcoming changes to shinobi, Swordman 3 -> Barb 2 -> Doppel 3 -> Shinobi will be among the best shinobi builds. It’s also a very strong Doppel build. However, as it is right now, shinobi clones can’t copy any barbarian skills so barb is effectively weaker at the moment.
I recommend plate armor since doppels are super squishy. You can use leather if you want, but it’s certainly playing risky. If you play with a cleric friend, for example, using leather is less of an issue.
Full STR is the way to go, unless you want to build a more defensive Doppel that has tons of evasion from DEX. If you want to PvP with that doppel (tho doppels aren’t the best pvp characters) you should build your whole stats around pvp: high CON for hp and DEX for block penetration.
Both are decent bracelets. Phada if you focus on Cyclone / Punish and AoE dps. Sissel otherwise. Remember Phada takes out your evasion so don’t focus on evasion while using them.
Both red and green gem works. Go for green gem if you crit rate is low (~300 or less) or red if it’s higher since crit rate has diminishing returns.
Thanks a lot for your answer! you solved most of my doubts, but I have few ones more:
-In Swordmman I’m using Restrain for the combo with Cyclone, is that fine? or maybe I need to move that points (7) for Concentrate?
-I heard that Cyclone now scales bad, is that true?
-Is true that Deeds of valor increases “attack speed” apart from phys. damage or don’t applies anymore? I read and saw that (video) from tosbase: http://www.tosbase.com/database/skills/11001/
Concentrate lv 7 won’t make much difference from concentration lv 0. Concentration needs to be either maxed or left lvl 0. And even when maxed, Concentration works better for DEX builds than STR builds.
No. Cyclone doesn’t scale bad. It gives you 7% skill factor per skill point which makes people think it scales badly. But in reality, it still hits 27 times and has 2 overheats. Cyclone is by far the best AoE dps skill doppels have. The difference between lvl 3 and lvl 15 is a difference of around 55% more overall damage.
In fact, the reasoning of cyclone scaling badly is so flawed that if you calculate the proportional factor you get per skill point spent in Cyclone, you will end up having nearly the same prop. factor for spending points into Zornhau.
I can’t really notice an attack speed change and I’m honestly not sure if it works or not. Even if it does work, you shouldn’t bother too much with that since most of your skills don’t depend on attack speed (except Double Slash).
does using both dov15 and guardian15highguard10 neutralize each other?
They have different effects.
DoV increases the damage you take.
Guardian increases your physical defense.
High Guard increases your block rate.
They don’t “neutralize” eachother because they are not the same type of bonuses. But of course, using High Guard/Guardian while DoV is up helps mitigating damage.
Do note IMC has stated that in a future patch even bonuses of same type won’t neutralize eachother anymore.
EDIT:
If you’re talking about the damage you deal being neutralized, it’s still not true because DoV increases overall damage while Guardian and High Guard decreases physical attack.
With invested weapon (+15 transcended) and high multipliers, green gems will net you more damage in the end, red gem can be an option if you don’t plan to invest in weapon.
Other important points have been pretty much stated by mrshadowccg already.
Just to make things clearer, even ATK have diminishing returns as well since both of them of them apply the new log formula, only that ATK has more favorable formula than crit rate.
EDIT: Correction, it’s the DEF that have diminishing return.
They don’t but they are ‘detrimental’ to each other’s effect. Simply put, other decreases damage to improve survivability while the other is contrary.
You got it wrong, attack has no diminishing returns, it’s the opposite. It has increasing strenght as you get more.
ATK doesn’t have diminishing return. Enemy’s defense does.
The formula for damage is:
If defense is zero, the fraction (Atk / (Defense + 1)) will result in a value much higher than 1 (even higher than 100 because you have a minimum default atk), which means the logarithm will also result in a value higher than one. Thus, the min function will always cap the defense multiplier to 1.
Therefore, if enemy’s defense is zero, damage scales linearly with attack, while obviously multiplied by skill factor (still linear tho).
Right, thanks for the correction, I had them interchanged in my excel calculator as I have been working on my lancer’s defense.
The problem is this barbarian build is almost every skills symbol of red should be more attack skill or debuff but c1 c2 has most skill c3 only need go for the increase debuff to gain advantage to increase more long durations but c3 barbarian the 2 skill doesn’t fit well with the game play barely synchro with any type skill . They show change to others skills fits is name and well combo with own class skill is important
Do you know if the red card “Centaurus” fits well with the build? I mean, for the AOE attack ratio 2 at lvl 10… maybe for the range of Cyclone.
U need Shinobi in your laifu
All non-mounted builds need shinobi
If you’re building AoE dps Centaurus is a really great card. Helps about every swordman build.
If you are not pvp oriented, what is the pros and cons between strengh and dexterity for doppelsoeldners?
With highlander passive, level 10 yellow gems will never be equal or better than green for transcended weapons?
@mrshadowccg Hi, you seem to be an expert at swordsman classes. You mentioned that swordsman3-barb2-doppel3-shinobi will be one of the best doppel-shinobi builds in the future. How would you compare it with swords3-highland2-doppel3-shinobi? (Assuming after the shinobi patches where barb skills can be copied)
The problem I have right now is that I have a sword3-highland2-doppel2 at the moment. I’m not sure if I should start over and choose barb2 instead of highland2. (I do plan to take shinobi at rank9 btw)
And what do you think has more synergy with the fencer variant? (Sword3-X2-fencer3-shinobi) highland2 or barb2?
I made this google sheet a long while ago, these are updated with shinobi changes:
You can copy the sheet to your drive and edit it there to see the differences for each class shinobi copyable skills and their skill factors.
Fencer can deal a lot of dmg but they lose when you consider Doppel’s debuffs (cleave, zwercchau, …). Corsair is also pretty strong with impale dagger.
Considering shinobi clones, barb 2 brings much more damage than highlander 2 will once shinobi changes hit us (copy seism + cleave). Crown + Moulinet isn’t weak but the fact it lacks overheats makes highlanders definetly a weaker choice.
Sorry for the late response. Haven’t really been playing ToS anymore (taking a break).
Hi,
Which build do you recommend for boss killer after the swordman wiz rework?
Without debuff it would be fencer? With Doppel?
Thanks