Tree of Savior Forum

Hard Shield: Peltasta needs a balance to have a weakness

Recently, IMC has been busy to buff peltastas survival, and it has gone up a lot.

However, nearly all of it is passive, meaning you can just fire away on those 100k+ defense without having to worry about anything.

I believe IMC forgot that aside peltasta,there are still 2 other classes on every swordsman build,
meaning he can get complete survival on his own and high damage output from the two other classes in the build.

These things should not happen, as it is unhealthy to make one class overpowered in terms of survival while having 0 drawbacks (i.e. you don’t have a restriction that lowers your attack, you can use your shield defense to attack instead if your weapon is too low, you have strong physical- and magic defense and a shield that reliably absorbs damage to ignore what little damage you still take completely).

I think it is time to give Peltasta a good weakness, something he has to trade-off for being especially bulky.

First of all, Hard Shield should have its magic defense portion removed completely.

The reason is because it is ridiculous in combination with other buffs like pardoners increased magic defense, paladins barrier, oracles counterspell, enchanters armor enchants, normal and legendary Nuaele cards, on top of swordsmans bear and peltastas high guard which reduce every incoming damage heavily.

What is the point of having cloth armor and all these buffs available if peltasta can just get all the magic defense he needs from?

What is the point of party play if the tank can cover for everything on his own, so he needs neither a heal nor other options in the game to survive, while having access to attack buffs from doppelsoeldner,barbarian and damage buffs from cataphract,hoplite,etc.?

Also, how do you generate magic defense from the one item group that inherently does not have any (i.e. shields)?

For the sake of having peltasta rely on either other classes in party or specific items like Nuaele card/cloth armor, I believe that it’s necessary to disable any magic defense gain from hard shield.

It’s also way healthier for PVP environments, since you can then counter peltasta with other classes than oracle,miko or sheriff.

For the skill guardian, make it have only half the reduction value if you don’t use manual block with the subweapon attack button. The skill by itself is fine, but with a high uptime due to the skyaclips shield,
the skill is simply too strong on a standalone point. It also makes no sense that peltasta doesn’t have to lift his shield actively even once to have all the benefits of his skills, which comes off as weird.

why do swordsmen and clerics have the ability to use active block if it isn’t promoted anyhow within the active gameplay?

for the sake of balance and a better gameplay experience, promoting the use of active block would do great wonders to make the games battle system look less hack-away with passive stat protection[which is the main reason it’s so boring].

Guardian should have you to actively guard against attacks for a larger damage reduction.
You cannot expect high damage-reduction if you simply go gungho on the enemy.
The passive block on shield should be already enough protection without lifting the shield.

On that issue, I’d also like to address the AoE defense gain on hard shield.
Make it only apply half the value without having the shield up in front of you to actively block incoming attacks.
AoE defense is really powerful, but at the same time, it is gamebreaking once you reach certain amounts of it, keeping a whole party or even whole guild save from enemy attacks.

I believe it would be more healthy to make the protective ability dependent on the playing skills of the person doing the tanking and not on the dumb monster A.I. this game features.

Maybe this could even become a general feature where your AoE defense ratio is increased when you use active block, similarly to how it already adds bonus block, so you can shield other people near to you, so it can be removed from peltastas hard shield completely and instead become a feature for every class that can use active block.

E.g. active block could provide +50% AoE defense ratio in case of attacker or supporter classes and +100% AoE defense ratio in case of defensive classes (quarrel shooter, paladin, peltasta) via class mastery.

that way peltasta would lose nothing, but at the same time active block would gain more meaning (as you can protect nearby party members) and defensive classes would be able to take the tank role in the party, allowing for non-swordsman to do at least a bit of tanking.

3 Likes

I strongly agree with you.

On the Re:build, I tested almost every swordsman class and back then I already thought that peltasta got buffed to the point of becoming a core class on every non-two handed sword/spear build. Also, you could and still can (until patch arrives) use hard shield with a two handed weapon and the auto weapon swap system and not loose the buff, even though you loose the passive block, you gain so much defense that hard to not pick the class even if you will use two handed weapon.

Back then I felt that playing with two handed sword/spear was so underrewarding, that aside from certain build in certain scenarios, it lost the point. It is way easier and cheaper to do a shield based swordsman due peltasta. If you make a pelta-rodelero-murmilo for example, most of your skills can use the shield defense as atk value due attribute, and a trans 10 shield cost way less than a one handed weapon to transced and will more atk than the main weapon, just look at the values. Not only that, it way easier to play with pelta PvE and PvP due the passive block and defense boost, but also, swashbuckling increase in aggro limit and pull of mobs makes so much easier to land skills in plenty of monster at once (if you have the aoe to do so, of course). I never undestood why the base swordsman never got a taunt skill, not even a low cd single target taunt skill. Also back then, murmilo helmet also reduced damage. I do not think that shield changes on Re:Build had the same level of impact on the other classes as it did for swordsman tree.

I quitted back then and came back some weeks ago. Some of the things listed changed for the better, but some stills persists. I literally thought that there was no way that hard shield would not be nerfed, but I was wrong, it didn’t. I literally do not know what imc wants to accomplish with peltasta and tanks in general in the game right now.

As for active block, I totally agree with you, it is not promoted in the game at all. I will give you an example of fighthing a strong boss with a pelta-rodelero-murmilo and fighting with a doppel-barb-nak, it is just an example. For the doppel, you will have to jump and dash to the back of the boss between your combos quite a lot and invest quite a lot more gems into your 2h sword. For the the murmilo, and you can face tank the boss while spaming skills, just dodge some skills and no need to press the block button, having invested less than a 1/3 of the gem into the shield to have a good attack value. One thing that could balance this a little bit is not having the full defense of the shield as atk value for the shield skills, or having shields with less defense, but shields with less defense will also affect the other base classes.

I honestly think that one balance possibilty is the removal of passive block, only having active block, avaible to every class, but with block amount incresead for blue classes and shiled users. The problem with that is, what about evasion? You can dash and move around to try to dogde damage, but if that does not work, you still have passive evasion coming into play, why block can’t be the same way? That’s why I do not think things can become balanced easily. Block, evasion and defense are things that are hard to change without touching the other.

But to sum up my post, I agree with you, peltasta needs to be balanced. Right now, it is so good that is hard to pass by in almost every swordsman build, with little exceptions, due no draw back (aside from having less atk skills to use), even in builds like fencer-matador or retiarus-murmilo, having pelta with a good shield takes a way the point of using dagger as off-hand weapon.

(My opinion is in relation to swordsman pvp)
Swordsman is a tree that lacks a lot of CC / debuffs, unlike the others.
I confess that pestasta is stronger than it should be, but you know, except for lancer, retiarius (dagger block) and murmillo (with peltasta by the way) all other swordsman classes are very weak in pvp (if they don’t have peltasta together), I agree on a nerf in peltasta, but it would be interesting to add some nice debuffs to other classes like hackappel (please imc), dragoon, nak or any other.

High defense is not a problem when a Warlock or a Exorcist kill a Peltasta with a single skill, or a BM/Linker do a killing DOT burst in less than 2 second. The tops pvp swordsman players don’t even use peltasta in the build because many skills ignore def/mdef, remove buffs or do fixed damage.

Swordsman is suppose to be a tank class and peltasta is one of the few options to survivability of the class. BTW, wizards and clerics can tank way better than a swordman, and they are ranged and have way more options.

two words points swordsman weakness: Property Damage.

I agree that hard shield was kinda overkill on rebuild because they killed the capabilities of holding aggro(10s every 30s ins’t holding aggro), causing reliable cc and turned peltasta into a buff class. It stills feels bad every time i remember how useful was peltasta before Rebuild…

As a plus, mostly of its bulkiness comes from Guardian and High Guard, not hard shield.

Are you trying to say that the way to kill Peltastas is to stack prop damage? Just makin sure we are clear

To OP: You lose a ton of offense by going peltasta so there is a trade off. None of the peltasta skill set does any reasonable damage, you can say to just put damage classes on your next two but that will always be sub-optimal in pve, and easily defeated by disarm or lancer in pvp.

Ppl already stack a fairly high amount of property + true damages + multi hit. Idk where you found a problem. Just pointing out one of the main peltasta weakness because there are classes that gives you extremes amounts of property damage + multi hits for combining it and ppl still ignore them, everything will die for these things, for example builds with shadowmancer/warlock, priest/exorcist, bullet marker/enchanter. I m not telling you to BUILD UP more properties.

And yeah, lancer and reitiarius still have huge advantages over players with shield.

well why don’t you guys main a swordman + pelt main and go join PVP content like GTW/boruta and TBL first before comment hard shield is op?

2 Likes

I am about to do this, seeing all those meme rode>reti>pelta

The problem lies in the damage formula. The massive increase in defense given by hard shield directly works in the logarithmic part of the formula. Whereas attack classes usually get damage increase bonuses (most often additive ones, albeit with some exceptions) that work at the end of the formula, and thus get heavily dampened by the logarithm (since all that matters in that part of the formula is your attack and the defense of the opponent).
That’s also why fencers aren’t and cannot be as effective as other swordman classes right now. Epee garde may be strong, but since rapiers are one-handed and have inferior physical attack compared to two-handed weapons, the lower logarithmic part makes moot of the other bonuses (it could be solved by giving rapiers a way to ignore part of enemies’ defense, maybe with an attribute, for example).

Problem is that multi-hit classes aren’t going to be able to burst down anyone, so it is a sub-par pvp build at least for the purposes of killing anyone. Especially bullet marker / enchanter. Exorcist and Warlock are strong for other reasons, namely their insane burst damage and that has little to do with property damage.

If you want to focus on farming gems then fine, but I wouldn’t want anyone thinking that multi-hit classes stacking property damage is a way to counter peltastas, or anyone for that matter.

I think we are on the same page, but I just don’t want newer players getting confused and thinking the solution in pvp is stacking property damage.