Tree of Savior Forum

[Game Design] The Invisible Pay Wall[Not about P2Win ¬¬]

Hello again Saviors and Toasters, this time I come with a topic on game design that explains a completely EVIL game mechanic, yeah folks game design is not all about the good things, it can be easily manipulated. Let’s get this show on the road:

Game Design is the art of creating meaningful experiences. This concept is important to know as it explains why game designers tend to study more of human psychology than the technical aspects of programming and art and The Wall is all about experiences, here is a diagram that illustrates what The Wall means:

Simple isn’t it? It’s a barrier separating two different types of experience in the same game, it can be a mechanic like assymetric games or it can be the dreaded Invisible pay wall:
Like I said before game design is about creating experiences and that counts bad ones too, a good game designer can take any type of emotion out of the player if he wants to.

So how can I profit out of this? Simple, make a game that tests your patience against the tightness of your wallet, creating a frustating experience for free and a better one paid by micro-transactions so I can use the FREE tag and get the money effectively eating the cake and having it too.

Bloody disgusting isn’t it? Well here are some examples: Dungeon Keeper 2, Star Wars Trexxels, Farmville, Dead Space 3, League of Legends, Heroes of the Storm… and many more(So much so that Apple store had to change the tag of freemium games).

But this post is about how can the pay wall exist in an mmo, and here is one of a thousand different ways: The EXP boost.

The EXP boost can be the wall in two similar fashions, the explicit version that is the endgame content and the implicit grinding time.

^Type 1

^Type 2, this type is much more invisible and sneaky but it’s true that just one single parameter like grinding time can create a completely different experience overall, so when people come with the “It’s Optional Card” they are somewhat right, you have two options:

Option 1: Play for free and have a considerably worse experience.
Option 2: Pay up to play the real game.

In the end It’s all about the subliminal incentive to make you purchase, am I supposed to assume that the developer doesn’t want my money? What kind of naive child do you think I am?

Some will say that you have a third optional: Quit the game, although it’s not a valid argument at all if you think about it and even then the developers have a way to minimize losses: The freebie

The Freebie serves the purpose of showing you the better experience so you desire it a lot more in comparision with the other side of the wall, making you want to purchase the boost.

So in conclusion EXP boosts aren’t P2W. They are more like a twisted version of P2P, a developer can easily manipulate the game to get a little profit by deliberatly creating a bad experince for money’s sake, if that isn’t evil I don’t know what is.

If you are for this type of design well, I can just say that all and all you’re just another brick in the wall.

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You obviously put a lot of thought into your posts, and the drawings are nice touches but do you really think we need another thread about P2W??? I would pay someone just to make the P2W threads stop -_-

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Enough of these threads…just read the other 2. They’ve pretty much covered everything.

It’s not about Pay 2 win, you should read it before.

Very good explanation. I will admit I do like this model. Its from the fact that I don’t initially have to spend money to try the game. Then if I decide to play the game for the extended play I just need to see how does their tempting exp boost compare to a subscription and will it be something that I will need to keep purchasing or will it end after I get to a certain point. Then its always nice to get free boost codes cause then its nice to get experience if your broke.

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After reading it carefully, this thread is more about how some developers get profit by some models that were explained there. Very interesting theory.
And it looks like I’ve experienced all of those models in my former games. That’s why I agree to this.

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umm so what exactly do you want to discuss with this thread? The devs will likely implement exp boosters ingame, they will make money and I don’t mind.
Grinding can be fun too (and I know there are people who enjoy it). Just think of the grinding from old Maple Story, oh Lord… And what’s the fun if you reach end-game contents so quickly?
Maybe recent games are becoming easier and easier so people are becoming lazier and lazier?

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@Pomez: So you don’t mind Developers creating worse experiences to make profit?

I think Sharp wanted to give us some useful informations regarding how smart the developers nowadays. They basically will do anything in order to get their money. Sharp has explained all of the developers tricks and I find it useful.

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I don’t know about any “worse experience” you are speaking of unless I encounter them directly. However your example about exp boosters doesn’t really convince me. Regarding exp boosters, it has been discussed many times already and many people are fine with it. Personally I’m fine with it as well.

Alright alright, but OP DID SAY "So in conclusion EXP boosts aren’t P2W. They are more like a twisted version of P2P "

More relevent gif for the developers then ~

My opinion: if devs have smart tricks to get my money without me feeling like I’m being ripped off then they deserve that. It’s better than blatant rip-off in many games that I have seen/played.

Hello again Saviors and Toasters

Toasters

Toasters

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Ripping you off without making you feel ripped off is still ripping off, there are other less sneaky ways to monetize your content.

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Not really. To rip somebody off is to give them something that isn’t worth what they give back via deceit or fraud.

The game company is completely honest about what you get for your money. Turbine’s Lord of the Rings Online in particular makes it very clear you essentially get a demo for free and may purchase game functionality (or a VIP subscription) at your leisure. If you choose to pay that, then you’re not getting ripped off, because you decided in full knowledge that whatever was offered was worth the money.

Your argument (and the OP’s for that matter) is basically that because everyone was offered a demo and you specifically think the full product isn’t worth the cost, anyone who purchases it is, as a fact, getting ripped off.

It simply doesn’t work that way.

I wouldn’t play World of Warcraft if I was paid to but that doesn’t mean anyone and everyone who subscribes to it is getting ripped off. I tried their demo (free to lv 20 etc.) and decided not to invest in the game.

And so did a lot of other people because people aren’t that stupid.

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If they are ripping me off with those exp boosters then I’m fine with that. They are happy to get my money, I’m happy they can use my money to develop more for the game I like.
I don’t hate you or your thread, but your example with exp boosters is not very convincing.

OK I THINK this is what OP is trying to portray. My example.

-Developers make the game super duper hard
-Players cry
-Devs give players OP temporary buff
-Players continue to smash everything, hueheuheu ez game gg
-Buff runs out
-Players are weak again, imma scrub again m8
-Awh fk, gotta buy more buffs to contest PvE content and other players in duels with their OP buffs ~
-Repeat.

I didn’t give this enough attention in my previous post and I’d like to stress how absolutely ridiculous this implication is:

Yeaah no. If you give everybody a bad game then they’ll think your game is bad and won’t play it, let alone give you any money for it. There is absolutely no incentive to “intentionally” create a bad experience for free users unless your business model is themed on not having any players (paying or not), because everyone who plays your game is going to start as a free user.

What you likely meant was not that the free experience is bad per se but that the paid experience is better.

But uh, no ■■■■ it is?? If it wasn’t, nobody would pay for it. So basically you’ve invested an incredible amount of time into what is either a completely redundant observation or a completely insane conspiracy theory.

 

What game developers actually do, by the way, is much more insidious and reliable than that.

Once upon a time a guy named Skinner did some experiments on small animals in cages (boxes) to see how they handled consequences in the form of rewards and Bad Things.

He found that if a critter gets food / a treat every time it presses a lever, it relaxes and doesn’t press it that much because it knows it can do it whenever it wants. But if the lever has only a small chance of giving food, then the hamster goes crazy and starts hitting it over and over.

… which is why humans gamble, and is why MMO’s sell roulette boxes that only have a chance of containing prizes, one of which is that super awesome new pet you’ve wanted for months and the other 99.9% of the time is pointless consumable items.

His most evil experiment showed that if a hamster got mildly electrified every ten seconds it failed to hit the lever, it would start hitting the lever within every ten seconds without fail. And thus, game developers don’t make you pay for voluntary Good Things: they make you pay to avoid inevitable Bad Things.

Back when online games were all subscription-based, the Bad Thing was simply your account expiring and all your years of neurotic hoarding getting deleted. But freemium MMO’s will often give you free premium time and expiring cash items when you register so that premium becomes the norm and reverting to a normal account becomes a Bad Thing you pay to avoid.

In addition, so many premium features are basically subscriptions that aren’t called that. Some games time your extra character slots, and when it runs out, your respective character is locked away forever until you pay to be able to use them again (or if you’re lucky, deleting another character will boot them into a free slot.) That’s a Bad Thing.

So yeah game developers aren’t succeeding by intentionally making bad games lmfao

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I like @dracohandsome explanation, but not the actual experiments >,>

I just think all this money stuff is getting a bit tiresome. If it’s any consolation, I’m pretty optimistic that the IMC (international) server will probably be one where all these money issues will be least evident. If they just cared about quick money, I think they would have sold this to the highest bidder and moved on to the next game. The fact they are doing this server themselves suggest to me that they want it done right. As only the creators now how :slight_smile:

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