umm, iirc among 80 classes they plan to make 20 of them hidden, not adding 20 more 
With so many classes around, itâs gonna be tough to balance them all for PvP/GvG in the future 
We agreed with you, surely all classes must be balanced before TOS opening, but what we are saying is just too early to measure that, CBT 1 and 2 barely show us anything about how the classes interact with each other and most of the skills are subject to change, from dmg, CD , Casting times, to Effects and requirements.
We canât analise it without a scale, the same way you canât say how hot something is without a thermometer.
All weâre saying is, save this awesome post until Open Beta, than we gonna talk A LOT of balancing.
I liked ROs way of balancing classes 
Make it so getting to max lvl is so long, that most ppl wonât realise for years that the classes arenât ballanced. XD
Guys, why do you continue to talk about 80+ classes? There are 4 classes in the game with 80+ skill trees! And there is no real need to balance all those skill trees, they only need to have something useful in them.
Did you watch video about perfect imbalance above? Thatâs exactly the same here. No matter what build you make for your swordman, there is always a wizzard with right âclassesâ selected who will not leave you a chance in some situations. Just donât expect one class to be perfect for everything, like damn ranger in RO.
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Iâd also encourage the mechanics to be deep enough to where the player matters too, there will always be meta huggers and bandwagon builds.
The most important thing is going to be feedback, Iâd say just try that class combo that sounds awesome to you when you get the chance to play and then there will be PLENTY of time to compare the apples and oranges.
well they are basically 80 skill trees, but I like to think of them as 80 classes, it sounds way cooler 
. And yes you are right, some classes will always be better than other at something. What I want is balancing of skills so none are OP/broken (from CBT2 Dievdirbis could silence bosses with carve ausrine 
)
The mistake the OP makes is presuming that the raw statistics of characters constitute strategy, rather than say, the actual tactical use of those characters in active combat.
This is the same fallacy often claimed of the original Ragnarok Online, which, although clearly unbalanced in its classes at any given point in time, does not have PVP results determined solely by the relative power of classes or their builds for one simple reason:
Most MMO players are idiots. (Ragnarok was and is a FAR more complex game than it first appears.)
A friend of mine back before we all stopped playing RO regularly wiped the floor with anyone and everyone in PVP because she simply understood the game much much better than them. She was usually playing Sniper which at the time was not at all considered top-tier. Sin crosses? Champs? Cheapass smiths? All floored because their players were idiots and she was applying the true dominant strategy, i.e. a very deep understanding of game mechanics that can be applied to most if not all classes.
I have consistently found that in any PVP environment, only an elusively small portion of the active PVP population (like 1~3%) is actually good at the game. The rest are spoiled brats who refuse to admit that they simply lack talent, and thus measure themselves by the far more favorable âbig numbers on my characterâ to compensate. Because the majority of player strategies are uncreative and poorly thought-out, this causes the game balance to falsely be represented by the raw stats of its characters.
The point is that, if Tree of Savior is anywhere near as indepth and detailed as Ragnarok Online, the differences in classes will not cause any of them to inevitably dominate any of the others because the bulk of game balance is in the tiny details that arenât made apparent to most players and that apply equally to every class.
Back to RO:
How many people know that any single-target skill can be dodged despite Ruwach / Sight by using Hide a split second before its cast time completes (Hide being available to non-Thief classes via cards), because thereâs a tiny delay before Hide can be canceled?
How many people know that any attack whose cooldown or delay is based solely on animation time / Aspd can have its animation canceled (âdancedâ) by clicking to move at precisely the right time, including Homunculus auto-attacks?
How many people even realize that Cloaking doesnât protect the character from damage, it just makes them invisible and untargetable?
Itâs the tiny quirks and neurotic details like this - especially the ones available to every character - that change game balance from being stat-based to being skill-based.
And in Ragnarok Online, players need to be TOLD WHERE TO PRE-CAST, so Iâm pretty sure most players donât know about those quirks.
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How many people know that any single-target skill can be dodged despite Ruwach / Sight by using Hide a split second before its cast time completes (Hide being available to non-Thief classes via cards), because thereâs a tiny delay before Hide can be canceled?
How many people know that any attack whose cooldown or delay is based solely on animation time / Aspd can have its animation canceled (âdancedâ) by clicking to move at precisely the right time, including Homunculus auto-attacks?
How many people even realize that Cloaking doesnât protect the character from damage, it just makes them invisible and untargetable?
Itâs the tiny quirks and neurotic details like this - especially the ones available to every character - that change game balance from being stat-based to being skill-based.
And in Ragnarok Online, players need to be TOLD WHERE TO PRE-CAST, so Iâm pretty sure most players donât know about those quirks.
Yes, yes, yes, so much yes. Like seriously, people that started complaining âX CLASS SUX, GONNA PLAY Y CLASS.â And then continue with their bullsh*t âTURNED OUT Y CLASS SUX, GONNA CHANGE TO Z CLASSâ etc. arenât fully comprehending the game up to its fullest. At first I thought RO was just your usual point and click MMO that emphasis is on PVEing, but itâs actually more than that. Players who actually thought on real strategy in battle are the ones who can beat every single idiots in MMO, especially in RO where people thought that it was just a cheesy game when they started complaining about every single classes they played without a proper understanding on that specific class.
Letâs hope that it wonât turn out to be like that in ToS. I am really optimistic about the development of balancing in this game, I mean, Kim Hakkyu himself is the one who directed the game, this one gotta be good!
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There was more strategies, and they are all discovered in time,including mid combat/split second gear swap.You could simply test what kind armor enemy has with frost bolt, if its ghostring= enemy freezes and you can rape him if its unfrozen well,you can rape him again with your champ or bs. About sinX and stalkers, Iâve seen some backsliders better than snaping monks. As most of the champs were unaware of aspd=better snap. In the end snipers were shitty again, once pvp community learned all that stuff.
thatâs true - many RPG players make those mistakes - in all kinds of multiplayer RPGs (including the one I developed ^^). giving up is the easiest way out but it is not always the correct way to go. sometimes you just have to be creative any find non-obvious ways to make things work, even if the odds, on first sight, seem to be against your character.
the perfect imbalance is the way for balancing game that has so many classes and different skillsets.
practically buffing/nerfing is neccessary process to balance it
Well to be honest I will be super happy to have fun with all the classes that I can get my hands on! I am not super concerned with min maxing, I just love the variety and the fun that this can bring.
In a game like this balancing isnât as big an issue as other games. Balance here is uniqueness. Classes are based on the entirely unique features that only they can do. In most games there is only two factors; damage and defense. In this game what you have are a load of possibilities.
For instance the Oracle who can reroll drops. Maybe they will never be the best support, the best attacker, the best tank. But they have something no one else can do that makes them uniquely favorable.
Iâve gone through a lot of the classes and they are all like that. Thatâs something that makes this game stand out as ragnarok did all those years ago when it came out. Balance through diversity, true appreciation for the finer aspects of support based play.
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I think what skills without cooldown should spend stamina and when stamina ends the damage at least be reduced as some have seen in the video one dievdirbys using Carve in the boss with high DPS (Damage per Second) damage. It would be nice if the boss detects the Austras and try to destroy.
True utopia shall occur not when there is no imbalance, but when there is at least two greatest powers (in this case, two builds/class trees) who can compete against each other in the same exact comparison.
Other classes? You know, if you complain about your class is too weak, you should find again the first reason you take that class.
If you are seeking for âpower,â well, simply take the most powerful class from the beginning. But if you take the class because you like the design or because you think you can have fun with it, then you shall get what you wanted at the first place.
If you are afraid of the nerf-buff circleâwhich I am certain wonât happen too often if the dev is getting things rightâgo have some characters with very different style of classes.
P.S.: anyway, âpowerâ itself does not belong to a sole category. There are power in the market, power in the PvP, power in the boss hunting, etc.
This is rather incorrect.
Youâre neglecting the possibility of class synergy and status effects, which ToS has been hiding in specific classes.
Even in the first few ToS vids, there have been multiple accounts of class synergy such as ice wall being broken by melee attacks and etc.
As far as I can see from the current skills as depicted in tosbaseâs database and taking into consideration the CBT2 vids, the possibility of min/maxing for each class can only come under a specific scenario. Whereas a general min/maxing would be rather weak and not applicable.
Furthermore I donât really expect ToS to come out with raid version of bosses. Itâd most likely be map/world/town bosses, since the instance-based dungeons has been rejected and pro-KS concept is already announced as per the recent FGI. So groups with a fixed number are already thrown out, unless youâre expecting your party of 4 to be constantly with you and that there are no one else to fight the boss.
Thatâs just left with individual thinking and the idea of generic class setups. There are aggro skills such as Swash Buckling from peltasts, but that doesnât really maintain the idea of a tank, given that the healer is unable to spam heal and have to resort to different types of healing. DPS is also split into melee dps and magic dps, both which have their own obstacles to overcome like defense and magic defense. Archers apparently donât have uber dps as their mmo counterparts, they seem to mostly major in utility classes, so outright dps build is also thrown out. There is a possible combination for pure dps archers though, so donât fret if you wanna be a physical glass cannon.
Right now, the more important variables are monsters, item setup and the new classes.
Monsters being too hard may require specific characters to clear, but that doesnât seem right. So most likely ToS isnât going to have raid-level instant kills type of bosses.
Item setup is still very far from understanding. How much stats do they add? Would there be so much that generic class setups overtake the class synergy which ToS have been stressing on? Are there any special abilities? How far do squire, pardoner, and alchemist improve others?
New classes are even more enigmatic. Looking at just the names of the hidden classes, they most likely exhibit very specific scenario game breakers imo, as implied by ToS saying that there are physical requirements to unlock them.
By far the easiest way to simply balance things is to leave them as they are. Thereâs another post about how unbalanced design makes a balanced gameplay too, and after all, its still CBT.
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awsome art work man 
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This post was made way back when things were different, and even if you say I am incorrect your argument is basing itself on your expectations and speculations, the point of this post was to point out ideas to make every class a little bit useful based on game mechanics.
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For any kind of game that is in some way competitive in nature (in this case finding the best class synergy and playing it because it is most viable) a meta will be inevitable. A meta is molded through time based on what is most viable for that stage in the game. A meta may change through nerfs, buffs, new content (some bosses may require different builds to beat). However a meta is inevitable and unavoidable. The only possible solution I can think of is to somehow create enough build variety so its not just a couple of builds that are effective but rather much more. This can be achieved by have a lot of PvE variety which would ensure that a couple of builds arenât the best because they canât possibly account for the complex monster environment in the game. This establishes the concept of trade offs and depending on the instance you are clearing that trade off may or may not be in your favor (this also forces interesting party dynamics.
I wonât take Pyro nor Cryo, but Wiz 2.
Beat me. 