Tree of Savior Forum

Forcing solo players into group play

General Discussion
#41

Okay I can sum up everything you said like this…

“I don’t like the current game mechanics please change them to suit my preference”

Because advising/suggesting people to play together equals more benefits more then solo play is part of the games initial mechanic’s every part of the game is the overall mechanics you do understand how balance works right let me give an exsample.

Entity A = a factor in the game that effects multiple factors (playing method).
Entity B = the game in its current state.
Entity C = other factors within the game.

If you start to mess around with entity A without or little information currently what your providing it will change Entity B and this will ripple onto Entity C causing some if not a unknown amount of damage to Entity C because lets look at this for instance if you make the game now more solo play it makes multiplayer play more unappealing that effects classis and builds that relies on multiplayer play and damage’s them because less party’s less progression for them and then they become less appealing so no one does that build anymore because its not worth the time and is less fun.

The thing is your asking for change but you lack understanding it reminds me of a person who makes a wish but is very vague for instance

“i wish to be the richest person on the planet”
everyone else money vanished and now everyone’s poorer then him

Also please don’t use the term ugly attitude when someone disagrees with you it makes you out to have a victim complex and tells people to pity you…

#42

I haven’t read this thread. I do not want to read this thread. I want to offer one point. I am not agreeing, nor disagreeing with anything posted here.

If the solo area provides equivalent progress to the party area, everyone will just mass grind that instead, and then people will start to wonder why noone does the party area.

In other words, solo areas are fine AS LONG AS it is implemented correctly. It is important to keep in mind that people will complain about anything. If there are mobs that are solo-killable and grant decent EXP, then they are party killable and grant lots of EXP. If you provide a solo dungeon, people will complain about how the game has become a daily grind fest. If you just prevent parties in certain areas, well …

RESTRICTIONS!!!

OP your suggestion is fine, but it’s probably not at the top of the todo list right now. Give the game some time to mature and then maybe we can take another crack at it.

2 Likes
#43

Unfortunately your areas will backfire on you as an area is only so big no matter how much implemented those areas will now be populated by groups of people because now its considered desirable and thus solo players wont be able to kill monsters due to a party of 5 will camp key locations on the map thus equalling less exp for solo players and more exp for party players in the long run due to killing monsters.

Okay this part is to everyone can people please stop throwing suggestion’s as if its simple to change a core factor think about all the possibility’s of what your asking the pros/cons because there are so many ramifications with what you guys are asking to change but your not looking into it and expecting the Devs to preform the impossible aka make every single person happy.

Ill leave this nugget of information take time travel for instance change something from the beginning can you tell me what effects could happen on the future for instance removing Hitler could remove half if not a lot of weaponry developed in that time that would be critical in other wars or conflicts also medication and such basically what I am saying removing or changing one entity can have a major rippling effect suggestions are fine but please try to be at least a little reasonable.

#44

/thread.

seriously…
half the forums is spoiled infants crying because the world isn’t catering to their desires fast enough…
and half of the rest is people venting because of the first group.

#45

Reminds you of when you order pizza for a bunch of people and you ask them what they want on there pizza eh?

#46

You know in every mmorpg being in a party is optional but you will always get better things and exp while doing a party, just check bosses in a lot of mmorpg.

we are all different and I understand that some people are having fun solo, but still, in those type of game its always gonna be more rewarding to be in group for most of the content, the opposite is impossible.

Its not like the game is “forcing” people to play in party it’s just thats its better that way.

Though I still feel there is some problem but, its more the social interaction that internet seem to cut down.

My personality make that I’m on my guard when talking with new people
So my opinion would be more like this:

somehow mmorpg today has made a lot of stuff socially anwkard. Automatic matches while its cool, its something not natural. A lot of people aren’t at ease playing with strangers usually we are all different and so we should just party different ways. If someone feel he need to bring a community together to feel at ease. He should make a presentation topic and ask to know some people, he will probably play with really nice people then.

I know my post is probably not that helpful but I hope it will help someone.

3 Likes
#47

oh god, the things i’ve done to all those crabs…

this is also good… but i think parties should be forced at least for part of the time.
almost every game, i get to that “now you have to party” stage, eg, the first real dungeon, or whatever… and sure, i understand the basic roles, but then i’m like “well ok, but what am i -actually- supposed to do?” “get aggro/ do DPS/ Heal people” etc is great, but kinda vague, and always a bit different for every game. like the simplest thing; clerics have pretty much range of 1 for their spells. heals, cures, lightning, most other circles, etc… all starts in front of your toes and goes out, which took getting used to, because i’ve always just stood out of range of the mobs in other games and tossed heals from a good way back.

so like, imagine if some of the beginner quests forced you to party up in at least pairs or something. not necessarily “needs a healer”, but maybe like one needs to get aggro, and the other has to poke it in the back or something. stuff you literally cannot do solo (and it should be blatant about that so there isn’t an endless batch of crying about “how i do X, it turns around too fast”… like, just don’t even let them start the fight.

not only do you learn how to work together just a bit better… but you also start to get a brief glance at what the other classes can do.

#48

alrighty nevermind too occupied

#49

That’s how ToS is designed and to be played… why are there so many whiners on every single thing nowadays. You don’t whine about how tetris has too many irregular shapes and suggest limiting the shapes to 3, you fking git gud and play it.

#50

For me this “forced grouping” is part of the RPG side of this game. Its like we come to a point where our character alone isnt strong enough anymore so we need allys. Every RPG has a Team/Group/Party-System, just that you play solo. This here is an MMORPG and I am thankful thats some of these root mechanics are coming back…like crafting Fletcher Arrows, using logs as Dievderby…and that we need to party. Sure there are people who always want to solo but its not possible all the time. When the whole game is soloable can the “Groupplayers” start to whine there is only instanced content for them?
For me its a breath of fresh air, that the open world is finally “dangerous” again und you cannot just rolfstomp everything solo.
Most modern MMO’s have cut these RPG Apsects to become more “gamey”, and thats ok because there are players out there whom want to play that kind of game. Not every MMO(RPG) has to go that route.

2 Likes
#51

Fair enough. Thanks for the thoughtfull input.

At the others: Where the heck do you see any whining? I brought up a point and wanted to dicuss it. Shrug

#52

To true I recall the meaning of group play is to take on a obstacle that would be impossible to do alone.

#53

To the OP, it is just a symptom of when the devs ran out of content.

It’s not coincidence that the quests content and potential zones drop off here. It’s pretty clear that the devs made a design choice to drastically slow down the later stages of the game rather than have players quickly hit the cap and (likely) quit.

It’s not a very good answer to have players grind terribly over-tuned mobs, but I guess its one way to keep players in the game. I suspect this will change when the content is updated and such, but another grind road block will be just be at the later stage of the game.

My advice; roll an alt until the content is updated, get use to party-life, or just move to another game. This is a design choice, not a problem as the developers see it.

3 Likes
#54

Very true, and this here is what I will be doing for a while, at least until quests at that level range become more abundant. I may try to reach R7 with my first character, but anything beyond that is just silly at the moment. I’d rather try a new playstyle that may better suit my preferences anyway before deciding to do endgame grind.

On that note, I did notice that the 170s~190s are now easier, probably because of the present level cap as opposed to 200 like before. Some naturally spawned mobs that used to aggro in CBT are now made passive, such as Lizardmen Magicians, Wendigo Searchers and Hollowventer Shamans, so they don’t murder you just for crossing their path anymore. This might be applied to level 210+ enemies when they eventually increase the level cap beyond 280.

#55

But you pretty much described ToS. The only dangerous areas are those filled with monsters approx. 10+ levels above yours and even if you manage to defeat them, your only reward is an EXP penalty for not fighting a monster within your level range: so much for having an “open” world.

Tree of Savior gives you the illusion of being an open world MMORPG when it is obvious that the game was designed not to have players play together:

Flawed questing

I don’t know who the hell decided MMOs should have quests but I want to kick him in the nuts because it’s the very reason why people are unsociable and why making more than one character become extremely boring:

  • Quests are asinine: revelator, harvest my crops! Revelator, fix my fence! Revelator, make a wooden hammer (with the freaking hammer and anvil you’re already carrying)!
  • Quests are so easy they can be solo’ed
  • If that wasn’t bad enough, quests are meant to be done in a predetermined order which makes leveling alts a real snoozefest
  • People are almost always on a different part of a questline and don’t want to play catch-up with other players and therefore refuse to party
  • To add on top on that, some people prefer to read the story and fully explore maps while others don’t
  • Because people refuse/can’t party, it leads to some ugly behaviour like kill-stealing

No alternative to questing

One of the most entertaining parts of a MMO is to team up with other players and defeat monsters you wouldn’t be able to otherwise. This doesn’t happen in ToS because of the following reasons:

  • Monsters yield way too little amounts of EXP
  • Awfully low numbers of monsters in some areas
  • Ridiculously low amount of monsters you can aggro which prevents mobbing
  • Monsters take too much time to respawn
  • EXP penalty which makes killing tons of weak monsters or killing a few really strong ones completely useless
  • Only five members allowed in a party: Diablo 2 which isn’t even a MMO allowed 8 people to play together!

Trade restrictions and player interactions

I’m not going to explain why trade restrictions are bad, others have done it before me but it’s still a very important problem and it needs to be mentionned. However, I’d like to add something else to my complaints:

  • The main chat require megaphones: I don’t know who had this stupid idea but when you’re not in a city, it feels like you’re playing a dead MMO. And while you can use your free TP to get megaphones, it still means you can only send 5 messages a day (which you’re more likely to spend on that revive crystal if you even have an ounce of a brain).
    Hell, let’s assume you’re loaded and very talkative. You can buy the third pack which gives you 160 TP: if you spend 150 TP for 3 megaphones packs, it means you have paid 0.07€/$ (rounded up) for the ability to talk in the main chat (2001 called: it wants its overpriced SMS prices back)!

tl;dr: ToS is a nice game but it’s currently not a MMO.

Edit: definition of a MMORPG:

As in all RPGs, the player assume the role of a character (often in a fantasy world or science-fiction world) and takes control over many of that character’s actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player online RPGs by the number of players able to interact together, and by the game’s persistent world (usually hosted by the game’s publisher), which continues to exist and evolve while the player is offline and away from the game.

#56

You have to look at it this way while I do love soloing I also don’t mind partying either at the end of the day your playing an MMORPG (Massive Multiplayer) if you don’t want to play with other player’s play a single player game.

#57

I dont get what you want from me. Yeah pre-level 200 you can solo everything but afterwards the mobs ramp up and start to kill you. Isnt this the very premise of this thread? that you need to group and they dont want to be forced? So what do you want to tell me with your first paragraph?

I agree, questing in every MMO is something I can do a few times and thats enough, but thats a problem with every questing system ever.

Again after Level 200 you need to group to grind or you will be really slow. So how does grouping doesnt happen here? YOur point might be valid before these level but afterwards it is not true.
And if you party and at least 3 different base classes are in your party you get an EXP boost which encourages grouping.

Agreed on all points of trade restrictions, these are bad and need to go away. But Megaphones are in alot of f2p games. Not that I like them, but its a way to make money for them.

And whats with tthat definition? I do everything that is defined there. Everything stated there is possible in TOS. YOu may think its not a MMORPG but I disagree here.

#58

I was replying to your post specifically, I don’t care about OP.

Level 200 is far, very far into the game, I really want to take part in those groups but I’m only level 105 and I’ve read that IMC has added more quests since the initial korean release which means they’re probably planning on putting more quests into the game as time goes on. Hurrah! By the time I catch up to them, grinding groups will have moved to higher levels maps and I will be stuck fetching onions for some stupid NPC I don’t give a hell about.

Right now, ToS barely qualifies as a MMO. I’ve had more player interactions playing Dark Souls than I have in ToS, how sad is that?

#59

Without guidance to a game without any for of leading the player the game becomes really confusing. There is a reason why games in general have quest and that is to lead and introduce players to different areas. If people just make games and drop down a bunch of sprites/model, and label them with random level. It would be really hard to follow anything.

I mean nothing stopping you from going to fields and grinding monster. It is just not efficient.

If you don’t have quest in general you know what would happen? People would find area to grind at, then information spread then there becomes this “predetermined” grind spot that replace
questing. Also people refuse to party just because they like to solo? I highly doubt people even think about grouping up to do quest unless it is a dungeon or something harder to do when alone.

. . . what? General party size for most games are between 4-5, any higher are consider raid level participation. Generally 10+.

I’m not even going to start with you quoting a text book definition of MMORPG which seems. . . . eh

#60

Let me guess, you’ve only ever played theme parks MMOs?

The game already has a starting area, it doesn’t need to hold your hand until you reach maximum level.

I’m pretty sure people can walk to new areas on their own just fine.

How is it hard? If you can kick some monster’s butt with relative ease and gain decent EXP you know you’ve found a good spot to play, otherwise you could just, you know, explore the other maps?

Exactly, which means I have to do insanely boring quests to make any progress at all.

Well, if the monsters were all different from each other and if the AI wasn’t dumb as a brick, we would have several grinding spots and dangerous but rewarding dungeons for those playing in groups (and by dungeons I mean the old kind of dungeon, the one anyone can enter at anytime, not the 2-3 runs a day, instanced crap we have).

Besides, for a game with so many classes, it makes zero sense that a cleric, an archer, a swordman and a wizard all progress the exact same way.

Just because most games restrict party size to 4-5 members doesn’t mean they’re right in doing so. As I said, Diablo 2, a ARPG from 2000 allowed a maximum party size of 8 players. Ragnarok Online (I know some people must be sick of ToS being compared to RO but hey, it was IMC who boasted the game as RO’s spiritual successor) had a maximum party size of 12 players.

If you’re not going to debate it, don’t bring it up then.