Tree of Savior Forum

Forced skill interactions: from "What's the point?" till "omg,why did you do this"

Since the beginning of Re:build, IMC made the previously hidden skill interactions visible, put up some crazy combinations (trans-class most of the time) and yet leaves most of them pretty much useless unless you wish to cripple your character for one or two skill interactions between two or three different classes.

However, recently IMC also pushed for more in-class skill interactions.

With the most recent patch e.g. [Link to patchnotes]
we see the bonus hits from katadikazo removed in exchange for increase damage against enemies who take damage from aqua benedicta.

People might be happy with such changes, but we have to take a closer look to what has been done, how it affects the game and why it makes or doesn’t make sense to implement these changes.

First of all, to keep this short, I’ll talk mainly about the interactions between both katadikazo & aqua benedicta and gregorate & entity. Feel free to add more skills and forced synergies with comments below.

First of all, let us talk about aqua benedicta and katadikazo.

To understand the point of the skill interaction, we first have to take a look at what each skill does, what its limitations are and how the skill works.

  1. Aqua benedicta(post-patch)

Aqua benedicta is a targeted ground type magic circle that deals holy property magic damage every 0.5 seconds over a period of 6 seconds.
It has a very small AoE and only affects up to 8 non-flying enemies inside the magic circle AoE.

  1. Katadikazo (post-patch)

Katadikazo is a targeted ground type magic circle that deals 3 hits of holy property magic damage.
It has a large-sized AoE and affects up to 15 enemies inside it.

After stating the base effects & values, let us take a look how to use the skills in active gameplay:

  1. Aqua benedicta is generally used on stationary enemies [you either stand near the enemies for 6 seconds or disable their movements if they are mobile for maximum effectiveness] because the AoE is very small and the damage is dealt over a semi-long period of time, which might cause the enemies to leave the AoE to pursue the exorcist if he is too far away from the skill.

The small AoE and the small number of targets make it a very bad skill used actively against many targets, and especially levitating/flying targets, as they are not affected by the skill at all (with the exception of bosses), so it is best used against small groups of targets close to the exorcist.

  1. Katadikazo is generally used to clear large groups of enemies in an area far away from the caster, which is spread out too much/to many in number to hit all targets with rubric.
    It only loses out to entity in terms of possible AoE, but it has 1,5 times more possible targets, which makes it a great clearance skill for e.g. incoming mobs in challenge mode.

After understanding both skills, everyone should be able to see that both skills are polar opposites.
one has only 8 targets while the other one has 15 targets, and one is close-range stationary with a small AoE while the other one is mobile high range with a large AoE.

It wouldn’t be so bad if katadikazo would amplify aqua benedicta [large > small amplification],
but with aqua benedicta required to amplify katadikazo, you can at best partially amplify katadikazo [only 8 of 15 enemies hit will receive amplified damage, and only if they are not flying and actually stand inside the small AoE of aqua benedicta].

Now, in which case does the amplification actually make sense then?
In boss fights [i.e. 1 vs 1], which means the only time you can efficiently amplify the damage of an AoE skill [which has low damage because it is designed to hit multiple enemies] is when you fight against a single enemy.

While we are at it, let us take a quick look at what was lost:

Katadikazo lost its inherent 2x damage against demon and dark type enemies in exchange of a better SFR growth per skill level, which means it is down to 75% of its intial damage[pre-patch] against these targets without the aqua benedicta boost.

If we look at the new level 390+ maps, the demon/dark property targets there are mostly flying types, so you won’t be able to pull off the combo on those targets either, resulting in a net skill worth loss for challenge mode and field farming [unless you get a new weapon good enough to compensate for the loss], which were the main reason to skill/use the skill.

Depending on how strong the boost by aqua benedicta is, katadikazo might become decent for bossing, but that is not the point of the skill…

We have a similar problem with the new forced interaction between entity and gregorate.

first, let’s look at what the skills do again.

  1. Gregorate is a close-range magic attack striking nearby enemies 1-5 times[depending on how many friendly targets are close] with holy property magic, inducing a 2-20% additional holy property damage debuff for 10 seconds on enemies hit by it.
    Its AoE is a small circle around the caster that affects up to 8 enemies inside it.

  2. Entity is a far-range magic striking close and far away enemies 1 time for holy property magic damage, inducing a debuff that reveals enemies in cloaking close by and damaging them.
    Its AoE is a huge area around the caster, and it affects up to random 10 enemies in it per cast.

After understanding both skills, everyone should be able to see that both skills are polar opposites.
one has only 8 targets while the other one has 10 targets, and one is close-range multihit with a small AoE while the other one is single-hit [with OH] far range with a large AoE.

Once again, it would make sense if entity would boost gregorate, as you would naturally first pull enemies with entity and once they are close enough finish them with gregorate.
But it’s the exact opposite, you are supposed to first pull 8 enemies close to you,
then strike them with the stronger gregorate only to then finish them off with the weaker entity.

No wonder people say we live in a clown world, looking at these reversed synergies where the stronger skills with lower AoE and target number[gregorate and aqua benedicta] are supposed to amplify the weaker skills with bigger AoE and target number [entity and katadikazo].

Fact is, most normal enemies will not survive the stronger skills that are supposed to be used on them so that the weaker skills can deal more damage, unless you deliberately either neglect the stronger skills (i.e. don’t level them and/or attribute them,which would be stupid in both the case of aqua and gregorate after the changes) or pull more enemies and hope that at least some survive so kata/entity become clean-up skills instead of sovereign skills used on their own and for their own purpose.

Feel free to comment on all the weird and stupid skill interactions below

2 Likes

2x Katadikazo dmg on demons and dark type mobs being removed really sucks, I hope Imc reverts this change :confused:

I got two stupid forced interactions to share:

  1. Swell hands + Brick Smash
    “Using Brick Smash under the Swell Hands buff removes the enemy’s helmet.”
    How often do you see a thaum doing pvp? And the synergy works only against targets wearing dragoon or Murm helmet (Maybe PD mask too?)… the conditions are just too specific for this to be useful.

  2. Brick Smash + Hangmans Knot
    “Critical chance applies as 2x to enemies gathered with Hangman’s Knot.”
    Brick has a long attack animations, and Hangmans only lasts 3sec. That would not be a problem normally, but Linker+Outlaw is most commonly used for farming. Which means we need to use more of those 3 seconds to Swell the mobs. By the time you use Brick, the timer only has ~1sec left.

But that is not the biggest issue. Let’s compare Brick with Throw Sand:
lvl15 Sand = 684%, 17 base AoE attack ratio
lvl15 Brick = 543%, 0(?) base AoE attack ratio
And sure, people will say: “But Brick has 3 overheats and Sand only has 1”, but the idea of Link-Thaum farming is to one-shot the linked+swelled mobs… And with the lower AoE it has, if often can’t hit all 10 linked+swelled mobs… Having to use 2 or 3 Bricks with that slow animation is far worse than Using 1x Sand or Blindfire too.

Also, why the hell is Throw Sand a Pierce skill, should be Earth imo. That would give synergy with the Joint Penalty: Earth attribute (although it would make Brick into an even worse skill)

Anyways, Outlaw rant over… I’m just frustrated about Brick Smash.

3 Likes

Hamaya and Entity. It was awkward for me at first when I realize the amplified hamaya appears under several nearby enemy instead of directly boosting the present hamaya like how chaplain’s magnus exorcismus boost priest’s exorcise back then. It indirectly makes you in awkward position to move, since if you move, then the enemy on hamaya will also move to chase you. If I recall correctly, no stunlock like fire pillar. For the love of goddess… it’s interaction between two class… please make it worth. At least give it stunlock and a bit larger AoE since the preparation time is long (usually, you will want to use entity one time first to gather mobs before deploying hamaya and cast entity again to boost hamaya)
This feels like a joke when you compare it to ice wall - psychokinesis combo, or to fire ball - dust storm combo, or flame ground - meteor combo, or divedirby statue - clap combo

1 Like

Hamaya and entity was magnus and entity combo.

Unpopular opinion (i play exo too), but any indirect nerf to the class is always welcome. It’s already strong even with these changes (at least katadikazo increased SFR makes it at bit more decent to use vs non demons).
We still have rubric for 2x dmg against those types (with a naturally inflated SFR on a 15 sec cd), our aqua benedicta SFR is upgraded to Rubric tier, low maintenance, continuous high SFR (conditional) with Koinoia

Exorcist kit is already powerful enough, and introducing minor inconveniences is good for balance. We can’t have it all. Don’t be greedy.

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