Tree of Savior Forum

Flesh Cannon(5)+QC buff vs. Summon Familiar(5) + Servant(5) + Dark Attack attrib and QC Buff?

Hi everyone!
Currently I’m a wiz3Kino1, going for warlock at rank7. I’m thinking of getting kino2 then 1 circle of either necro or sorc.

I’ve read that Flesh Cannon(5)+QC buff has a good damage. I was wondering if summon familliar(5) with servant(5) buff + warlock dark attack attrib could rival that? (i’m focusing on these damages rather than their summon, because only 1 circle is available in my build at this moment)

I’m having doubts continuing with kino3 as i might not deal much damage in bosses (am wrong here?). hence i’m thinking of getting either necro or sorc circle 1.
I’m getting kino2 for collecting and stunning mobs for summons with not the best AI (or should i just drop kino2? for c2 of either necro or sorc? or continue with kino3?)

I’m more into dungeons(search party. havent tried solo run yet) and mobs/pve. boss hunting later on when i’m stronger :slight_smile:
but of crouse I’m also looking for a build that can survive in pvp and could help with a guild later on.

Con 59
int 101
spr 30

suggestions and thoughts are appreciated. thank you! :slight_smile:

  • I would like this character to finish first before creating a new one. haha! :slight_smile:

If you want to continue with this character, then IMO its better to go Kino3. Gravity Pole still does good damage in PVE.

Alternatively, go Wiz3-Kino1-Sorc2-Warlock. For PVP you can use Telekinesis to CC while templeshooter hits your opponent, but of course that is just for duels. Group PVP is another different matter.

For the direct comparison, lvl 5 Flesh Cannon is much stronger than lvl 5 Summon Familiars. You are comparing 15 hits to 5 bats. But the bats will be easier to use since they home in to their targets, while you have to manually aim with FC.

Kino3 without ice wall does feel weak for bossing and missions. You’re at the mercy of cleric’s safety zone because without it you’ll often get knocked down and just auto-attack waiting for cooldown. If the boss moves around then there goes your DPS too.

Gravity pole and Raise are awesome for trash packs. With quickcast the pole is very strong.

Familiar gets Invocation and Warlock attributes for +40% dark damage. Auto aim, instant-cast, useful for defense.

Flesh Cannon does more damage probably, I don’t have 5 points for Invocation yet and am probably going to see Warlock 2 skills before I make my decisions on point alocations so I won’t be testing the full potential of familiar but it’s completely singletarget.

My opinion, if you don’t like Kino3, which would be the obvious choice. You can take:

Wiz 3 > Kino > Linker .> Necro > Warlock

This would probably work very well if you can pay for Flesh Cannon every 20s.

Hi @moises_andre12 ! When you say Familiar gets invocation, do you mean, when they attack an enemy they become spirits (5 evil spirits)? or did you mean that they help with invocation :slight_smile:

@draven

They get +30% dark damage from Invocation’s attribute.

They also make a spirit if they kill the enemy as any damage skill that not Summoning or Salamion.

@zellista @Excenmille @moises_andre12

hi everyone! thank you for answering my questions :slight_smile:

my 1st build is going to be wiz3kion1link1necro2 - as an experiment for other character that i will play. and if necro3 is good, then I can continue playing it haha! :slight_smile:

Now, for my second character, i’m sure on going wiz3link1. my question is, would a sorc1necro1wl1 be viable? skill rotations and strong damage. or would it be better to just focus on sorc2wl1 for dark attributes and buff and better control of summon? but I’m worried about skill rotation and CDs if I choose sorc2wl1. but a summon could cover the downtime with continuous damage (i think) I lack experience as you may have noticed. I apologize :slight_smile:

and also, would familiar(10) match flesh cannon (5)? going with 10 bat hits vs flesh cannon with 15 hits? :slight_smile:

i could even go for sorc1necro2. but wouldnt that be a waste of synergy between sorc and WL? (i dont know why i have such affinity for necro. i just do. maybe its my teen goth phase back then, calling me haha!)

@draven

Talking about goth, between Sorc, Warlock and Necro, Necro is the only one which isn’t dark

You can get +40% damage on familiar with Invocation +Warlock’s dark att. That would means, in terms of raw power, 14 bats in damage from 10 bats in numbers, 0 silvers, instant cast, easy to aim and used for defense.

Necro is Flesh Cannon, if you want to use 250s/spell for a skill that is not as strong and leave familiar at 5, which means you might not even use it, then go ahead, just try to realize Sorc 2 brings you more damage than you’d believe with 10 bats + summon skills.

Wiz 3 > Linker 2 > Necro > Warlock is very good I believe if you give up on Sorc 1, as there’s no reason to get it without Sorc 2.

Necro is Flesh Cannon, if you want to use 250s/spell for a skill that is not as strong and leave familiar at 5, which means you might not even use it, then go ahead, just try to realize Sorc 2 brings you more damage than you’d believe with 10 bats + summon skills.

Woah there, you’re trying to tell me that 16 hits is not as strong as 14 bats worth of damage? I mean, you do realize that you would need to spawn an Invocation spirit first to be able to use that +30% dark boost, right? Not to mention that you are comparing 16 hits AOE to 14 bats single target that each only have 5% chance to even deal splash damage. Not to mention that if you were to get hit by a random mob before you get to direct the bats to the boss, your bats will end up going after the mob instead due to the built-in mechanics.

Summon Familar is on a 35 seconds cooldown. Flesh Cannon is on a 20 seconds cooldowns. The amount of DPS and overall damage is simply not comparable at all. The more accurate comparison is against Flesh Hoop. Melee range, yes. But 15 hits, single target, on a 25 second cooldown. Flesh Hoop alone will out-do 14 bats worth of damage on a single target.

Lastly, in terms of DPS, Flesh Cannon is probably the 2nd strongest wizard AOE right after Frost Cloud. With Flesh Cannon, you get 48 hits per minute (1097 base damage at lvl 5), while Frost Cloud is on 64 hits per minute (643 base damage). No other mage AOE as of now can even come close to these two spells without having external support.

FYI, based on my current stats (lvl 180), at lvl 1 Flesh Cannon, 735 matk (+6 arch rod, 337 total INT), arde dagger and 40% attribute, I hit the Bosses in missions for roughly 2650 damage per hit, or 42.4k total damage, every 20 seconds. At level 5 Flesh Cannon, without changing my other stats/gear, my damage will go up to 3850~ damage per hit, or 61.6k total damage, every 20 seconds. Compare this damage to what you are outputting at your current level (220++). Reminder that I am not yet using a Superior Corona Rod or even Animus/Max Peta, nor Wizard Bracelets.

So now, if you want to do a proper comparison, it would be:

  • lvl 10 Summon Familar: 14 Bats worth of single target damage ([0.4*(min+max matk)] base damage, 35s cooldown, 5% chance to splash, possibility of being drawned away by a stray mob)
    vs
    lvl 5 Flesh Hoop: 15 hits worth of single target damage (1005 base damage, 25s cooldown, melee range, slow hit rate)

and

  • lvl 10, 10 Templeshooter*: Riding>Skill + Morph>Riding>Skill + Re-summoning to spam TS’s AOE skill (cannot gain damage from matk/magic amp gear, cannot be buffed by Quick Cast attribute, does not have enhance attribute)
    vs
    lvl 5 Flesh Cannon: 16 hits AOE, 20s cooldown (gains damage from matk/magic amp gear, can be buffed by Quick Cast attribute, has up to 100% enhance attribute).

Wiz 3 > Linker 2 > Necro > Warlock is very good I believe if you give up on Sorc 1, as there’s no reason to get it without Sorc 2.

There are plenty of reasons to get Sorc1 for a Necro build.

  • Summon Familar provides a +5 AOE attack ratio buff. With this, plus the default 3 AOE atk ratio for wizards, and +1 from Roxona Plate gloves, I have 14 AOE atk ratio on Flesh Cannon. In comparison, Frost Cloud has a fixed 15 AOE atk ratio. This single buff makes Flesh Cannon competitive to Frost Cloud in terms of AOE targetting.

  • Templeshooter with lvl 5 Summoning still does decent damage on a high INT build. At 500 INT, lvl 5 10* Templeshooter will have around 2951 atk. At lvl 10, that jumps up to 3451. It is still a substantial amount of damage, although it will require a more close-range oriented playstyle to ensure that the TS stays in range of the intended targets due to the lack of C2 control skills.

  • Summon Familar at lvl 5 is still a useful ability to use while waiting on cooldown against bossess.

1 Like

I get your point and you stated good reasons, OP can decide from this but I’ll point a few last points:

As linkers there’s not much of a point to talk about AoE, any sort of AoE is taken into the hit count and it is bad news for us. The real deal for using Linker C1 are singletarget spells.

Flesh Cannon is indeed VERY strong but has very low AoE, very easy to miss and has cast time.

Flesh Hoop applies 1hit every 0,66 seconds, or 3 hits every 2 seconds, you have to stand at meelee range for 14 seconds to deal 21 ticks.

Sorc 1 is good for Necro, I just can’t think of it as better than Linker 2 for a Necro 1 > Warlock.

Seriously, I made all the real calculations of you are talking about and I almost went Necro 1 instead of Sorc 2 plenty of times, I don’t regret it at all. My familiars do ~35k damage without invocation (familiar is the best skill to use that attribute because it’s not meelee ranged), Theurge ~80k+, Temple Shooter ~90k basic attack damage on 30 seconds attacking, +40k burst in 5 seconds twice a minute AoE, all temple shooter damage is dealt on a very large AoE and if you use Links only for Familiar + Theurge it doesn’t even break.

I’m using +0 maledoom, max peta, ~30 att for dps skills didn’t mention pole bc att is at 12 as has long CD. Got 150 CON and around 400 INT as I’m more focused on PvP

Sorc 2 have Riding skill, i don’t know how strong/how it work but i heard it the summon can face other way > you miss. Flesh Cannon is very straightfoward and feel more reliable.

I feel the play style of Sorc1>Necro1 is “faster” then Sorc2 (the summon still feel awkward even with control skill, i bet) so i don’t regret going Necro 1 instead of Sorc 2 (though i might regret for not going Rune Caster for the costume)

Also don’t forget Necro have Decay through Shoggoth and Dirty Pole that increase 100%(?) damage for 95% of Archer skill. In some case in the future, this thing might really shine

Anyway Flesh Hoop deal 1 hit every 0,66s -> only need 10s to deal all 15 hit :sweat_smile:

He changed the numbers, if it’s 1 hit/0,66 sec, it’s 3 hit / 2 sec and 21 hits / 14 sec

@yuriohliveira

sorry didn’t see that mistake, thanks

@Atamazon

Riding is good for mobility as it can be used as a short range teleport. You also avoid some damage and skills.

Good Sorcs never miss S-skill. All you need to do is insta-link if he goes for a bad positioned mob, reality is he is the best aimer between summons. He always goes for the closest mobs so it depends a lot on how good you play your Sorc and how well you control your CDs and positioning.

Hold and Attack Ground are only useful for bossing and PvP/GvG as he shoots more often when he doesn’t follow you. Riding is your “control” skill for PvE.

The 2nd main reason why I wanted to go Necro 1 was Decay (after Cannon), as I said, it’s a very solid option, If you always use Flesh Cannon when available it is probably stronger then the build with Sorc 2. I just don’t know how fast your links will break since you have skills that hit more targets, which makes them break link faster and you have to spend os SP pots for Temple Shooter problems and 500 silver/min on Corpses.

For AoE and link, usually i use Flesh Cannon (40% attri) first to one-shot some mobs then use link later (dungeon 190, hope that i can still one-shot at higher lvl dungeon). Also i believe Flesh Cannon is the best skill to pair with Invocation (might equal to Frost Cloud) to ensure your last hit

About the money for pot, it’s only troublesome if i grinding in field since the corpse won’t “reset”, but if i grinding i field, the silver mobs drop will be enough for corpse pot. This game have 600 lvl, higher lvl mobs will drop more silver. Atm, i don’t really care about the money for pot

When i choose my main, which class is stronger than which class is not the only concern, but the play style, the “feel” is also very important. I have consider Sorc 2 because control your summon is very unique and i don’t think it will be outdate (Flesh Cannon don’t have high hitcount as Frost Cloud -> might be outdate when rank 10 come). But i “feel” Sorc 2 is … saggy? (have never play Sorc 2, not sure about it) that why i choose Necro because it’s feel more directly and fast pace