Tree of Savior Forum

Fixing the BOT issue

º People have been talking about the issue with BOTs in games for quite a while now, even though it’s nice that the fanbase is discussing different strategies to prevent the game from beeing crowded by BOTs, none of them seem to really fix the issue, most of the “solutions” they’ve come up with are incredibly inefficient and a bad plan for any company, because it’d requires a crescent amount of money to be spent on for it to work properly(hiring people to be hunting Bots, checking logs etc).
º In my opinion, the best way to solve the BOT problem is to value Player-to-Player interaction over Player-to-NPC interaction. Maybe it be from completly removing the silver you get from random material drops/recipes from monsters or making it so you can’t get any outcome out of NPC-selling and mobs start dropping close to no silver per kill.
º If there’s a good enough crafting system in this game in a couple of months, and I’m not talking about crafting classes excluively, I’m talking about crafting in general. The game needs to give drops an actual use other than just making it available to have BOTs using them for money grinding. Some sort of downgrading items(Scrapping if you will) would be a good way to make almost every material drop desirable, while not excluding the drops from quests and different uses. Thanks to @azureWOX for this suggestion.
º The best way to get rid of BOTs in a game, from my point of view, is by making it not as profitable as other games. Botting is a business for those who do it, obviously, they’d rather do it in games where they can actually get a good outcome out of it instead of places that it’s too hard/unpractical to get a good and reliable outcome. It’s like ppl say, you don’t need to run faster than the bear chasing you, you just need to run faster than your friend.
º It’s about making botting not worth it. One of the ways BOTs get money(the most common way AFAIK) is by killing the same mob over and over again for it’s loot, then selling it to a NPC, repeat. If they were to cut this part of the cycle(the one with selling their stuff to the NPC), they’d be forced into doing things like selling materials that no1 wants to hunt for(which is already a good thing for the community), waiting for rare drops to be sold in the Auction House(AH) etc. None of these ways are anywhere near as effective when you compare the Player-NPC interaction, they’re already losing money because of the Tax from the AH and not only that, they’ll also have to deal with themselves.
º Naturally, there will be a few particular mobs that are a better choice for them to hunt because of what they drop. If the BOTs rely on this drop to make money, they’ll just make it cost scrap in a blink of an eye because of how much there’d be of it in the market and then again, losing more income. Not only that, they’d also delay their income because they can’t know when some1 is going to buy their stuff.
Okay, so now that you guys know what’s the idea, we need to go to the next step of the process.


How to implement it?
Implementing this sort of thing should be a slow and graduate process, here are the steps that should be followed:

  1. The first step into implementing this system into the game is to improve the Crafting System by creating more recipes of items/usable items that can be used and crafted by the players.
  2. Implementing the Scrap function. This allows players to scrap materials, recipes and equipments to obtain a diverse amount of materials to be used in the crafting system. With this, the game should also change some of the recipes to accomodate the use of the Scrap functionality.
  3. Improving the Equipment upgrade. Right now, all we need to upgrade Weapons and Armor is money. You get a bunch of anvil and start upgrading the item untill it has 0 potential, which is a lackluster system tbh. This system should be changed to not only require money but also items obtained through Scrapping to upgrade your Equips(To increase the use of Scrapping different materials) and to increase the sucess chance up to a set cap depending on how many of the Scraps you put in it. Rare items obtained from Scrap could be used to decrease the chance of losing Potential when upgrading an Item.
  4. BIG UPDATE implementing most of the next things at once like; Setting all monster drops to have value 1 when sold to NPC; Creating new ways to get money into the players pockets; Decreasing the amount of Silver dropped per monster kill; Increasing the amount of items regular players can put in the AH for sale.

And ta-daaa, the system is implemented. But, there’s a few more things to be mentioned, like the new ways to get money into players pockets, which is going to be answered in the next part of this topic. This next part’s purpose is to incude other ppl’s questions regarding this system.


Questions!

  1. From @nuriomarayana. Are you saying to make it impossible to sell loot to NPCs? Then where would the Silver even come from in the game?
    ANSWER: Yes! I mean, not impossible, but the loot is just not going to be worth anything if sold to NPCs. The silver would come out of these methods that can be applied(some already are in game) at the 4th step.
    There’s a bunch of ways to get silver into the pockets of players.
    1:Regular quests(with actually hidden ones giving extra silver) now giving Silver.
    2:Dungeon area events(Like legwyn family and Mausoleum Chapel thingy)
    3:Instanced Dungeon mob silver drop(Instanced mobs would start granting alot of silver, same goes to bosses)
    4:Storyline quests(following the regular quests purpose)
    5:Daily quests
    6:Instanced Missions. In icbt2, the purpose of those were to obtain some fun equips, like Vulvuzela and such, they could just give it a money incentive instead of the exp one, like what they’re doing in kTOS
    7:Crafting recipes and selling those items to other players
    8:Achievment goals
    9:“Clear Area reward”, where you’ll get it when you kill all of the different mobs in that area and explore 100% of it.
    10:As I mentioned, regular mobs would also drop silver, but a low value. Making it so being in a Party also increases the amount of silver mobs drop, whereas the increased rate depends on the map lvl(also to avoid botters, they don’t seem to do well at all against high lvl trash mobs)and the amount of party members.
    11:PvP arena rewards, one of them being Silver. With bigger rewards if you’ve remained in top20 or so for a week/a couple of days.
    12:Guild activities, whatever they are/are going to be.
    13:Field bosses.
    14:Mobs give less silver the more you kill it in a set period of time. This time is going to be reset per MAP and according to each Mob killed separatedly.(Thanks to @Derael)

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Ah, here’s the thread I’ve been waiting for. It’s a bit too long for me to read right now, so I’ll get back to it when I have more time.
Nice to see this thread has come into existence, though!

You talk about most suggestions not being efficient because it’d require a ‘crescent amount of money to be spent on it for it to work properly’, but i’d say most of your implementations would take more time and money than just hiring a bunch of people to handle bot reports.

You’re asking for a complete revamp of the current crafting system, implementation of an entirely new Scrap system that as far as i’m aware isn’t even coded into the game, you’re asking for a complete overhaul of the equipment upgrade system … playing around with monster money and NPC sale values is generally easier, but the rest?

There’s no way this is feasible.

In addition to fighting bots, this would encourage players to interact and give new purposes to existing functions like achievements and Guild activities…
I like this. +1 good suggestion.

But, when would the comapny stop paying the “BOTs task force”? That’s never, or whenever they stop caring about the game. Most of it is just new implementations to the current system, nothing that can’t be done in some updates, and those new systems are nothing too complex to be added in the game. Most of them are already in most games out there, like the Scrap functionality. The upgrade system is barely even an Upgrade system right now, it’s just there like this because they had to implement one, it’s the basic of the basics of a upgrade system would be. Unless you think it’s a good and well thought system that is.

Currently all normal monster loot sells to the NPC for very little ( like 10 silver or something ). I’d say this part has already been implemented.

Not recipes/equips tho xD

I just want to say this here: I’m not against your suggestions or am I trying to be rude, I’m just make sure suggestions are well thought-out.

I agree that maybe over large periods of time the payment of a ‘bots task force’ would probably exceed the implementations of new in-game systems. But that time is not now or in the near future. If ToS does well, then money no longer becomes a problem, if ToS does poorly then bots won’t even be a problem in the game.

I don’t think you have a background in programming or coding … the developers don’t just sit there and go ‘alright guys lets push an update with these systems’ … they take time, money, and lots of both. Without indepth knowledge in programming you can’t really tell anyone how ‘complex’ it is to add a new in-game system to the game is it? You honestly wouldn’t have an idea, so it’s unfair to say “this SHOULD be easy, so you SHOULD do it”.

Even if these systems exist in other games, they exist because the developers included it into the base source code of the game PRIOR to it’s development. Sure maybe these implemented it ‘later’, but that’s probably after the game had some success.

I don’t know much about any system in the game, I haven’t played. So the upgrade system probably could use a lot of work, in fact i’m sure it does because most modern day games have a terrible upgrade system. But again, a viable and good one takes money and time, which i’m assuming ToS don’t have right now.

Right, although the value on those was severely reduced from CBT2 -> KOBT.

The way it is now is pretty good, with loot/drops from mobs under lvl 100 being extremely low in value.

I mean, even the most simple games have this Scrap function,almost every MMO have some sort of it, that’s why I think it shouldn’t be hard to implement one. And it definely shouldn’t.
The thing you forgot tho, is that time is everything that ToS has after the release.

You can’t know for sure if it was prior or after, and yea, like I said, it can be done if a few updates. When they’re going to do it tho is something beyond me.

Just because I SHOULD be able to dunk a basketball because every player in the NBA and in NCAA can do it doesn’t mean I CAN.

I agree that time is everything ToS has after the release, I was under the impression you expected them to do this in the near future. I think this would be fine as a long term project, a year or so down the road that they work on slowly.

If you give me a name of a game I can give you specifics on whether it was implemented prior or after a game was released. It’s relatively simple to data-mine old game files.

I remember from the top of my head that FireFall and Blade and Soul have scrap systems, idk why you’d be wasting your time digging these informations tho xD

The whole scrapping and crafting system interestingly reminds me of Unturned (and similar games) where you walk around collecting loot from towns and use basically any item in the crafting system. Weapons and other metallic items can be scrapped into scrap metal, and scrap metal can be used to repair items or build metallic structures. Same goes for wood, basically.
I like the system, and I am curious about how it will work in an MMORPG. I do like the idea that loot will have a purpose beyond being quest items or simply disguised Silver. Especially if it makes for more, and more varied, loot from monsters. It adds flavor to the game, I think

I support this idea, but like others, I do wonder how feasible it would be to implement this

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