Tree of Savior Forum

First( or rather Second) Day of GTW in Silute

  • Team Name: Longheart

  • Character Name: Queen

  • Class Build: Sword 1 Peltasta 3 Rodelero 2 Templar 3

  • CPU: Intel i7 6700K

  • RAM: 16 GB DDR4

  • Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 1070

  • OS: Windows 10

  • Internet Connection Speed: 50 MB Download/30MB Upload

  • Country/State: Brazil - São Paulo

  • Comments:

First of all thanks for bringing back the GvG/GTW to the servers, it took a while (more than us players would like to, but anyway, proceeding). Differently of what was reported on Klaipeda, on Silute we had multiple guilds participating on it, such as : Hydrarium, Paradise, Unbelievable, Biqueira, Enders, Pallium, FireEmblem, Pandora and others, but even so, we were unable to have a good dispute over the territory itself.

Issues seem so far:

  • Templar’s Share Buff:
    - Templar using Share Buffs are causing the server to not be able to handle the communication between clients and is lagging the channel/map - While using it players that were walking to any direction were shown walking forever and endlessly, from the Templar’s guild of from other’s as well.
    - While on Share Buffs, Ein Soft if not picked by the Kabbalist that used, is giving players a 1/1 life instead of the effect that it should, that on a guild while on Share Buffs is causing it to spread thru many players of the guild.

  • Territory Capacity:
    - I did not experience this myself, but we have other folks stating that the channel was considered full and could not enter

  • Strike and Defense:
    - So far the game seems to be unable to provide a valid experience for guilds with a 3x~4x attendance during the GTW, on both situations when guilds with a higher attendance confront each other the server is unable to handle the communication, players are going from full to 0 hp without even seeing the adversary on it’s screen, sometimes even seeing them but unable to move or use any skill (under no CC effect)

Doubts and Concerns:

  • TimeZone and Daylight Savings Time
    - For me and others in the guild which I play, the time set for the GTW is pretty good, but we do have a concern over it, as we did in the past, will it change along with the server time ? (Even if the Server is located in São Paulo, the server’s clock is in EST instead of BRT, if it does shift for DST changes, it will go to the opposite time frame that the Server’s intent players, and then it will be starting at 01h AM Locally, can we please have it so the time for the GTW is 23h Brasilia’s Local time ?

  • Channel/Guild Number restriction:
    - If there is going to be a channel restriction that is as high as the maximum number of players a guild can have (considering Channel limit to be of 100 players as normal channels and the Guild being 99 members), it is feasible possible for a guild to keep others from entering the territory just by entering and being there with their 99 players (I know that this aint something easy to occur, but still, the game allows it and therefore brings a concern)

  • Defense and Territory Ratings:
    - So far, there is no official post stating which of the territories are supposed to be of which Rating (S/A/B), this information must be shared and stated by IMC itself. Also, at this point there is no real reason to create a defense or attempt to keep one of the zones for as long as possible (a single GTW, several days/weeks session worth), this must be changed in the future.

Suggestions:

  • Templar’s Summon Members:
    - Is there anyway to create a pre-made save group option there ? or multiple ones ?

  • Increase the Game’s maximum camera height:
    - Considering how the game is at this point, the size of the maps and the objectives of it, would it be possible to allow the game’s zoom to go as far as the character loading frame limit ?

  • Add an economy feature for the GTW Zones:
    - Make so the defense of any of the Zones give the players can give some benefit to the holder in the future (with a solid cap)

  • Validate Consumable usage or add an internal CD to it
    - Dispeller’s, Miko’s Charm, Scrolls and other things are being used a lot, and should still be used, but at least the internal CD’s of some of them must be changed, otherwise some classes will fully be nullified during the GTW, I have seen IMC planning to change how some of the defensive and CC skills work in the feature, a check on Skill Scroll’s, Dispeller’s and Miko’s Charm should be checked as well.

  • Verify Server Stability and Usage to handle the connection from multiple players.
    - At this point, it seems impossible to reach to a point where we have a 50x50 players fighting for the same feud and having a clear/smooth gameplay during it, most of the lag that I felt during the war was caused by the server not handling the information at the speed’s in which the game was designed to be played, wondering if a stand alone version of the game, having only the authentication done thru Steam, could not help minimize the issue. Players would still need to log thru Steam to buy TPs, logout and log into the game directly.

So far that’s all I remember related to it, will be giving additional feedback as the other sessions of GTW occur on the game itself.

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I agree with everything that has been said, except this:

"Validate Consumable usage or add an internal CD to it

  • Dispeller’s, Miko’s Charm, Scrolls and other things are being used a lot, and should still be used, but at least the internal CD’s of some of them must be changed, otherwise some classes will fully be nullified during the GTW, I have seen IMC planning to change how some of the defensive and CC skills work in the feature, a check on Skill Scroll’s, Dispeller’s and Miko’s Charm should be checked as well."

From the way the game was built it is absolutely impossible insert cooldowns in the dispellers and charm in a GTW. If you already have these items in stock, you can easily “jump” and being “pulled” and “controlled” by several other abilities like Magnetic Force and Retiarius abilities. Inserting cooldown in the use of these items can create catastrophic scenarios and encourage even more players to create control classes. Reducing a war to several people pulling you from one side to another seems to broken a very basic premise of gameplay of any game, which is opportunity for reaction. I think all control types must be nerfed at absurd levels inside the GTW.

After all, IMC always can reduce the use of charm and dispellers inside the GTW if they nerf all those bad-functional control skills.

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Agreed with @Ayeti.

Really the whole system needs a rework but a more temporary solution could be adding CDs to Dispellers/Charms and switching their effect to provide a CC immunity buff for a few seconds instead that you have to manually activate with the uptime not being 100%.

This would create situations where you have to strategically use them without completely nullifying CC skills. Preferably they’d be extended to knockbacks and currently unmitigatable CC too.

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So @Ayeti and @Queue , ok we might need a re-work for the CC classes, maybe a check on the duration of them - as is occurring on TBL as well, but right now, they are classes mostly dead, since the usage of such items make them unworthy/tradeable by a single item, imagine your own character, you do a lot of damage, invested a lot, then an item comes and you do nothing, that is really frustrating, nerfing it is one thing, making some of them obsolete is another :confused:

Very happy that GTW is active on other servers even if it’s not on Klaipeda, leads me to believe and hope that the low attendance on Klai is just due to testing attrition.

This right here would be great, or any other UI improvements to this skill would be ideal.

This is actually a double-edged sword. A single joint penalty will eat through dispellers in the blink of an eye, and I think this serves as an elegant means to balance them. Maybe make them weigh more, so that people can carry fewer. Generally speaking I think dispellers/charms should be allowed, as the really threatening stuff is a rank 3 debuff or higher, though I understand how frustrating it can be when your class can’t do anything because someone is carrying 1k.

This did not happen on Klaipeda, so I’m curious as to how many people were participating on Silute. o_o

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This is actually a double-edged sword. A single joint penalty will eat through dispellers in the blink of an eye, and I think this serves as an elegant means to balance them. Maybe make them weigh more, so that people can carry fewer. Generally speaking I think dispellers/charms should be allowed, as the really threatening stuff is a rank 3 debuff or higher, though I understand how frustrating it can be when your class can’t do anything because someone is carrying 1k.

Point taken, but is it killing any possibility of linker being used on GvG/GTW the best solution for the classes ? I thought that the whole idea was to create different strategies with the players on your guild and use different classes to achieve this successfully, this is not TBL where you are paired along with other players randomly, we are talking about a pre-made group of players that should be complementing themselves in order to reach a specific goal.

As we have Psychokinos with Magnetic/Heavy Gravity/Raise, there are also Thaumas with Reversi, or Miojo’s with the Toyoyo Knockdown, or Peltasta with Umbo Blow, or the Retiarius’Net, or Cryomancers with Ice Wall and the Snow Ball, or Pied Piper’s with the eternal sleep and stun, Zealots with Blind Faith along with Marionette cards, or Plague Doctors with Disenchant, Beak Mask and Bloodletting. There are so many comps with different types of CC’s, and so many strategies that I cannot say that turning some of them obsolete is the best option.

Yes, but there is always an element of silver sink and war economy.

I could take them or leave them, personally. I just find it funny to drain the hell out of someone’s pile of charms with a single skill. :stuck_out_tongue:

@Csiko

in Silute we had some guilds participating as Paradise, Hydrarium, Unbelievable, Biqueira, Enders, Pallium, FireEmblem, Pandora , Unlucky and others.

I feel that in quantity of players it would be something around 200 players, but the channel only holds 100 then we always had messages of “full channel” when trying to enter …

I feel that particular Arqueduct has something wrong, look at this video:

Arqueduct seems impossible to play, but when we moved to Baron Allerno everything improved, notice the difference of the beginning of the video for the minute 10:53 … were basically the same amount player with much less lag.

BTW,
Paradise is recruiting.

Awesome to see that many people participating.

Hopefully when it goes out of the testing phase Klaipeda is that active again. ._.

@Csiko
Awesome on text. Inside the game u just wanna kill dev-team of Tree of Savior. haha

@all

So about the Crowd Controls skills, besides GTW, IMC needs to bring a conversation/debate about all those control type skills inside all PvP contents. Its absolute non-sense the way those classes perform today and how a SINGLE PLAYER can influence ALONE a entire result of a PvP match, TBL, RvR or GTW, whatever. And obvious, not because he is “strong”, “well equipped” or something like this, all because he select the most OP control class type.

This is about what IMC wanna TOS to be? People beign throw side-to-side with no reaction chance?
@Staff
@STAFF_Ines
@STAFF_Amy
@STAFF_Yuri
@STAFF_Bob
@STAFF_Letitia

My dears, we need to know the position of your team, about those creepy FPS and freezing lags, and about control type skills too.

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Report of the 26th of July.

This time 2 of the Territories Servers crashed down during the GTW, both Aqueduct and Baron Allerno went down and got back after 5 minutes of it, while the server was down the characters that were on it got stuck and were unable to be logged. When it got back, the characters were already inded the GTW Territory Server, on different places.

Baron_Closed

We also received the notice of Channel full sometimes when attempting to join a fight for it.

We attempted somethings different this time, had some mistake on the calls that were given, had some positive results on some of the things, and a bad result in the end, but I believed that is part of the GTW Trial and therefore move on.

Bugs noted related to skills:

  • Reversi - Since Reversi is being used all around with Scrolls the Skills that do Status/Damage with as a debuff without timer are being infnite - such as Raise, Heavy Gravity, and Sand Storm (trying to remember others, fortunately the Druid ones are not reversible)

  • Hackapell - we have a player that was trying to use a Hackapell yesterday, we expected him to be able to, but even when he was mounted on his pet, as a Lancer/Cataphract/SR would be, he was not allowed to enter on the GTW Zone Map and was receiving the pet error message on his screen, I have asked him for the screenshot and will be adding further details to it

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in general it is obvious that IMC will need to be a complete overhaul of the netcode and servers to handle GTW. While Kim made it clear that is happening, till then it will always be a poor performance when there are multiple guilds on the same map.

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Sunday Night GTW 29/07/2018 - Along with Paradise/Unbelievable/Unlucky/Biqueira and others.

First day that I was able to play with my Kino instead, was able to use some Magnetic’s to get the opposing team together for easier Kills, not doing so many Raise’s since Reversi has become a must have skill scroll - and therefore will do more bad than good - too easy to have someone bugging due to reversi over reversi again and again.

Moving in and out of some battle’s was not feasible within the game at certain times, skills were not castable/usable - when the character was not under any type of CC - some times the Healing Pot/Elixir would not go out on time, and then later would show as used and under CD, but the character was already dead.

I am not sure if the overbuffing over the share buff from the Templar is one of the reasons why it lags so much during it, we are trying to minimize it by setting who would buff what. Still no success on it. - Is there an official list of buffs that go thru Lifeline/Share Buffs ? Could IMC provide this ?

Was also thinking on how to give a PvE advantage as well to the GvG itself, even if the game allows a farming map for only the guilds that conquer the feuds, with that it would give more guilds reasons to go after the feuds, or even a buff for the players that conquered one of the feuds give a little benefit to it’s players, could be simple things 5%/10%/15% on EXP/Silver Buff.

Even adding things such as Open War, on certain maps, between the feud’s conquerors as well could bring some new life to the game.

Anyway, getting ready for this Monday’s GTW with rewards, hoping that GTW will get some love in a near future as well so more people will get interested into it in order to improve their gaming experience.

If they can’t provide CD’s for Dispellers and Charms them they can increase the weight by a lot so players can’t carry so many at a time.

On a side note,it would better to not have GTW on PVE maps instead make specific maps suitable for a real GTW.That’s lazy of them to use actual PVE maps and turn them to GTW instance.

Take RO WOE example but make your own version and twist … just something new and not recycled please.

Maps with

Underground passages for sneak attacks
Bridges that can be destroyed and repaired
Tunnels that be created,caved in and dug up again
Floors that can be moved like a puzzle by players
Objectives by giving side missions to achieve items to help the trap,turret,bridge,floor,tunnel, underground passage mechanics
Mobs and bosses that gives bluffs and the items
Weather
Traps
Turrets

Step 1 is for them to make a game that can handle even 20 vs 20 without desyncing and lagging to the point where it is unplayable.

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Well, last day of Trial GTW with Rewards, back to non-rewarded GTW :slight_smile:

We stayed mostly on Genar Field today and tried Aqueduct at the end of it, on Genar we fought against Paradise, Unbelievable, Unlucky and Biqueira.

  • The server is still lagging a lot while the Templar’s ShareBuffs is active (for every guild inside the same map)

  • During many times, we got de-sync’d from the server but not actually disconnected. The other characters would start to move as in a power point presentation, skills were released out of order, position changes did not happen as they should - which caused some skills such as Magnetic Force to have their effects applied and pull your character from WAY further than it should be possible, not saying close to the zone, but way further than the 250+ distance that a teleport should be part of.

  • Sometimes during the strike/defense, the others characters would freeze, or keep moving in the same direction - even if they would cross between map limits - and when got back was dead already.

  • Skills are not being able to be released at their usual times, it takes a wholeeeeeeeeeeee lot of time for them to shown as released on the map, classes that have skills that would have an immediate target/effect in front of them suffer a lot with it, and loose most of it’s efficiency/role during the war.

  • I might be one of the group that would love to have GvG/GTW everyday, but I do agree that it might become too much over the guild itself, also it is good to have the feud and the Guild’s Emblem be shown for a while on the map itself. Probably having the GTW 2 to 3 times a week would make it perfect 2/2/3 or 3/4 (4/3) ratio would make it even better - x/x = ammount of days in between GTW, since a week is 7 days, we would have Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday in a 3 day of war or Wednesday/Thursday and Sunday on a 2 GTW’s per week basis…

  • The time frame, I believe for most, should be kept, and be tied to the local time instead of EST - Making it shift as it did in the past to somewhen closer to 1 AM in ther morning til 2 AM local will make it almost like a desert.

  • Maps: I personally liked the maps themselves, since a heavy defense on the entrances was not something feasible, the points where the map would narrow down served to create a barrier and attempt a defense on those spots which lead teams to victory/defeat over their strategy.

  • Timed buffs: We had some plays where we were able to collect points, and not the feud while holding it with 900+ point on our side, the Boss/Amplifiers were then used to keep the advantage in the defense of the territory, which could have created a bonus to our own side during the match, maybe forcing the buff to not extend as long as it did.

  • Territory conquest thru the numbers: defensive guild gives - 3 points into the offensive guild score per member, even though this might sound lackey, but giving the defensive guild objectives in order to improve, or make a more solid defense might brings more to the game itself, I don’t think that a wipe out MUST occur prior to the conquest, but I am worried that Boss + Amplifiers buffs can give a huge advantage to the striker.

Hoping we get improvements on the server, optimizations on the client, and a better GTW environment I do believe that Hydrarium will still go to the GTW during the trial without rewards, as we were already going in the past weeks. With hopes to have good matches and fun on the GTW, see you guys in the feud!

Longheart

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Another concern that we found that might occur.

At this point, since the limit of members is 99 per guild, if one gets a feat of getting such a high amount of players to join, no one else would be able to join the feud due to the channel limit. Thinking on this and in order to increase the number of guilds that would be able to play/compete on the GTW we might need an adjustment on Guild Sizes/Capacity on GTW, as well as the immunity buff of the player that enters the feud and stay still.

  • Change Maximum Guild Capacity to 50 (Half ot the capacity of the channel) instead of 99 or limit the amount of players that can join the GTW per Guild
  • Optimize the connection responses between Client/Server is needed as a high priority in order to guarantee the game can be played during GTW
  • Instead of making a permanent buff when you enter a feud, add a timed buff that will not allow a player to remain immune if he just walks in the feud

And here we are, one year later. Last year i replied this topic asking for IMC to not put cooldown on Dispellers and Miko Charms, because this can cause a cathastrophic scenario where people would be encouraged to stay creating control classes. So today, the GTW with dispeller cooldown is like that:

Ice Wall and Ice Wall, and freeze and freeze, and dsync, and lag, and FPS drop, and beign pulled and pushed from a side to another. Congratulations IMC, you made it, you turned the horrible, worst.

@STAFF_Yuri
@STAFF_Ines
@STAFF_Amy
@STAFF_Yuri
@STAFF_Ethan
@STAFF_Max
@STAFF_Han
@GM_Francis
@GM_Sebastian

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