Final Hours : The Testing Ain't Over Yet!

[EternalDream]

iCBT is almost over, but I’ll keep going till the bitter end.

Want to help me out to check if one of your skills has a modifier the game doesnt mention? Or how the bonus works on a skill that deals bonus damage to stunned enemies?

That’s what I’m here for. If you’ve checked out my damage guide, you’ll know I have a lot listed already, but it is nowhere near complete. And with the beta ending, I dont have enough time to test most things myself.

If you have a class with a skill that isn’t mentioned in the thread linked above, all I need you to do; is the following:

1. Unequip everything, and don’t use any buffs.

2. If the skill you’re testing requires a specific weapon, grab a low level one and take the damage range into account (in the case of physical attacks)

3. Hit an enemy of your choice with the skill

4. Confirm that the damage stays consistently the same

5. In the case of 2) find the lowest and highest value possible.

6. Post a screenshot of the damage dealt, the skill used, your Physical or Magical Attack, and the level of the skill’s Enhance attribute, if applicable.

7. If a multihit skill, make sure you post the damage of each hit, unless the damage of the hits is consistently the same (or consistently within the same range if 2) applies). Then just tell me how many hits it does.

I’ll do the rest

I know I’m asking this very late, as the beta is just about to end, but if you have some time on your hands, it’d be much appreciated!

[Dream]

Was wondering if you ever bothered to make a skill amplifier list? What I mean is something like Meteor’s 400% amplifier or Stone Shot’s 150% amplifier. Other skills actually have them but hidden while other skills don’t have at all making them horrible for end-game like Wugong Gu and Zhendu of Wugushi.

I already made an “almost” complete list for Archer classes so I was thinking if maybe you have for Swordies, Wizards and Clerics?

It’s fine too if you don’t have.

[Noah_]

I’ve re-read your post and so far there is only one special modifier known to me and unlisted there. It’s Bokor’s Hexing:Darkness attribute that gives +30% damage to dark property attacks on cursed target. I was interested in how it mitigates natural property of dark monsters so I took a couple of screenshots… and found a bug

I still post it here but note that Effigy does not properly applies penalties against dark monsters. Everything else should be working fine.

Neutral, no attribute

Neutral, attribute on

Dark, no attribute

Dark, attribute on

Ghost dark, no attribute

Ghost dark, attribute on

[EternalDream]

If you’ve checked out my damage guide, you’ll know I have a lot listed already,

Was wondering if you ever bothered to make a skill amplifier list?

cough Click ze link cough

All the listed ones I could think of are there, and a whoooooooooooooooole lot of unlisted ones, as well as just the actual values of things that are simply mentioned but never given a value (like on-stun bonuses such as cleave and pommel)

---

but note that Effigy does not properly applies penalties against dark monsters

From my damage thread:

[Damage Guide] The big formula, modifier types, and how they interact!

Dark : +100% on Holy

And it says this ingame too. Dark attacks simply do not HAVE a penalty against dark enemies. They simply gain damage on Holy, nothing else. Thanks for the pictures though.

Hexing : Darkness is a T3, so it’s additive with the armor bonus. Adding that one to my thread~

[Noah_]

That’s some embarrasing miss on my side I was absolutely sure that every element has penalty against the same one so didn’t even check element table.

[Dream]

Yea, I saw your list but you don’t have a full list of “hidden” skill amplifiers, you only listed the one already visible in-game which is Meteor, Claymore, Stone Shot, etc. What I’m trying to say is like for example, Oblique Shot is 120% while Twin Shot is 75%*2. The game doesn’t tell but surely there are hidden amplifiers.

[isaacvithurston]

Im making a damage calculator but I need the animation and cast times of every skill to show dps >.<

[EternalDream]

you only listed the one already visible in-game which is Meteor, Claymore, Stone Shot, etc. What I’m trying to say is like for example, Oblique Shot is 120% while Twin Shot is 75%*2

Uh, did you even read the thread ar all? Cartar Stroke sure isnt mentioned ingame. Ice Bolt sure isn’t mentioned ingame. Yes, I’ve listed those you mentioned as well, but that’s 5 skills out of the…uh…30ish I listed?
I feel like you really skipped the entire thread…

Oblique definitely isn’t 120%. The basic non-bounce hit has no modifier guaranteed. Firing it at an enemy and dumping it into the formula gives you the exact damage dealt ingame with no * 120% in there anywhere.
Likewise, Twin Shot definitely isn’t 75%. It has no modifier asides from doing +50% damage to cloth-type enemies.
You must be forgetting Enhance or the missile penalty, because those 2 skills definitely do not have the modifiers you say they do.

[Dream]

We must be talking about different things then. The amplifier I’m talking about is where a certain % of your PATK or MATK is added to the skill’s damage like how Dragon Nest skills works. Also, I did check that whole thread of yours.

Anyways, nevermind. It’s fine. Me and a guildmate is already looking for the hidden amplifiers ourselves. I just asked because there might be a chance you have, but it seems not so yea. I’ll take my leave now.

[EternalDream]

The amplifier I’m talking about is where a certain % of your PATK or MATK is added to the skill’s damage like how Dragon Nest skills works. Also, I did check that whole thread of yours.

There is none for most skills.

Your physical attack or matk as it shows in your status window is exactly what is used for the skill damage calculation, unless the skill specifically has an Attack Modifier (such as Shield Charge, which uses 50% of your attack power for its calculation), which, I, as it so happens ALSO list in my thread.

[Damage Guide] The big formula, modifier types, and how they interact!

Attack Modifiers

Scout

Cloaking “Physical Damage” Attribute : +50%

Swordsman

Pommel Beat : +200 on Stunned status
Double Slash : +200 on Bleeding status

Barbarian

Stomping Kick : +Boot’s Evasion

Rodelero

Shield Charge : -50%

Sadhu

Attack Soul “Ground Cell Buff” (Out of Body) : + Soul AttackNote: Soul Attack is your base attack before any equipment, but including additional “Magic Attack” values found on maces and for example the Wizard’s Blade.

Dump ANYTHING in the formula from my thread and I guarantee you it works for all the skills that are already listed in said thread, and most others too since a lot of skills simply dont have modifiers.

Again, even with your definition of amplifier, Oblique Shot simply uses your Patk. It’s not boosted by 20%. Twin Shot likewise does not use 75% of your Patk.

[Dream]

Uhhh no. I also know how damage calculation works tyvm. I made my tests under strict conditions which would guarantee me the best and most accurate results. IMC is definitely using the current trend on other MMOs which is %+fixed damage for skills. Anyways, if you think like that, go ahead but you’re missing out on critical information. Byebye.

[EternalDream]

Then show me your math. Honestly, I’m interested. All the testing I’ve done in extremely controlled circumstances for accurate results give me the values that I calculate. If you get different values, then tell me. I’m all for expanding my thread with this ‘critical lack of information’

No need to be so aggressive…

[Dream]

I didn’t keep any records because at first I thought it will be just quick tests so I didn’t bother using a spreadsheet.

Anyways, what I did was use very low level bows, get high level gems (blue? forgot) that decreases my maximum attack to lessen the damage variance. I also relied on Vendetta for damage increase instead of higher level bows since high level bows has waaay bigger damage variance making tests more annoying.

So just an example, let’s say I increase 300 PATK everytime I use Vendetta. I test my damage unbuffed and buffed using a single skill. I subtract the buffed to unbuffed and divide to 300 PATK to get the amplifier value. Luckily, the damage - defense thing made the tests easier. It shouldnt be a problem testing on any size of monsters because it’s all % but in the end, I still tested with a large and medium monster as well and saw nothing different, the amplifier was still accurate, after all, it’s all multiplication.

You can retest this on kOBT and I can assure you that there IS this amplifier thing on skills. Alot of skill do not have as well which would make their scalability on end game extremely bad like Retreat Shot, Wugong Gu, Zhendu etc. My guildmate has an incomplete list for swordsman classes as well.

[EternalDream]

So just an example, let’s say I increase 300 PATK everytime I use Vendetta. I test my damage unbuffed and buffed using a single skill. I subtract the buffed to unbuffed and divide to 300 PATK to get the amplifier value. Luckily, the damage - defense thing made the tests easier. It shouldnt be a problem testing on any size of monsters because it’s all % but in the end, I still tested with a large and medium monster as well and saw nothing different, the amplifier was still accurate, after all, it’s all multiplication.

Now this is what I want to see. Honestly, from the looks of things it sounds like Vendetta is doing something, not your skills. You can do Twin Shot and Oblique without a bow as oddly as that sounds, and I did that to prevent any damage disrepancies due to min-max attack. Every time, it simply used 100% of my attack, nothing more, nothing less, as the damage was consistent. Any damage modification that did happen was due to things like the Missile Penalty on medium/large or hitting Cloth enemies with Twin Shot as I mentioned.

I then tested again with an actual bow and simply calculated the lowest possible value and the highest possible value, and went to hit a good 50~60 mobs to get a reasonable useable range of values, and they matched the calculated range perfectly.

Whatever happened to your attack values has nothing to do with Oblique or Twin Shot, I can guarantee you that much.

[Dream]

Oh, before I started using Vendetta. I also tested using 2 crossbows, a high level one and a low level one. Good thing crossbows by default have low damage variance. With alot of damage samples (due to damage variance) I still got the same result. I just learned about Vendetta at a later time which made my tests alot more easier.

Another scenario is the annoying forced 2h bows on Fletchers. Had to test this with a Lv15 bow and a Lv40 bow to keep the variances at a minimum. I had close to 75% (73% or was it 74%) result per tick when using Magic Arrow. After I learned about Vendetta I did a retest and it accurately added 75% FLAT like literally it showed .75 in the calculator. It simply proved that there’s nothing wrong with Vendetta and all results were accurate.

P.S. Also, as a Scout main, I retested Flare idk how many freaking times but it all ended up with 100% amplifier. So yea, nothing wrong with Vendetta.

[EternalDream]

Another scenario is the annoying forced 2h bows on Fletchers. Had to test this with a Lv15 bow and a Lv40 bow to keep the variances at a minimum. I had close to 75% (73% or was it 74%) result per tick when using Magic Arrow. After I learned about Vendetta I did a retest and it accurately added 75% FLAT like literally it showed .75 in the calculator. It simply proved that there’s nothing wrong with Vendetta and all results were accurate.

Then Magic Arrow has a 75% Attack Modifier.

Were the Oblique and Twin Shot you mentioned earlier simply examples that weren’t neccessarily true? Because if they were actual tests, it would be incredibly weird due to my own tests NOT having said modifier. Twin Shot and Oblique both being 100% for myself and 75%/120% for you, I mean.

[Dream]

Not examples, those were results of my tests. It is indeed wierd but NOT if being naked actually messes the calculations abit like how not having an xbow messes up Backstab’s calculations abit.

[EternalDream]

but NOT if being naked actually messes the calculations

Except I did them all with a bow and equips too afterwards.
So there’s more going on here.

[Dream]

Anyways, Oblique was special since it will be my most reliable skill while suffering below Scout C3 classes, I did so many retest on it like using Bow, Xbow, not having a dagger(generic) while using Xbow etc. All tests gave me 120%. Oh and, with Vendetta, the result on calculator was almost perfect accuracy, it showed 1.200002 something.

[EternalDream]

You did take into account Enhance if you had, say, level 20 Enhance, right?

I mean, right before beta ended I was still running tests on my Archer. Oblique’s actual main shot was never 120%. I didnt have it Enhance’d, I didnt have the 2H bow attribute at all (I wasnt fighting flying mobs anyway) and it always used 100% of my attack. Even when I later Enhance’d it and got the 2H Bow attribute and went to test on flying mobs, the results still used 100% of my attack, not 120%.

For example, if my attack was 150~300, my Oblique was level 5, and I hit a Medium mob with 112 Defense (and the bow isn’t upgraded, so missile penalty is -25%)

My damage would be calculated as ((150 + 201) - 112) * 0.75 = 179 to ((300 + 201) - 112) * 0.75 = 291
And my damage ingame would show exactly that during my tests, ranging from 179 to 291. (the attack/defense used here are just examples, but the math held up perfectly)