Feedback about current vaivoras

[rgdlfgame]

I made this post to give a feedback about current vaivoras to make them know our opinion about it and propose some changes if we are not comfortable with it, so i will put my opinion but i want YOUR opinion too (not only about what i say in this post).

In general, i think that they did a good work with this content but i think that the boosts from vaivoras based on increase the final damage by 100% (or something like that) are not worth compared to more complex boosts that make vaivora weapons really special changing the skills itself giving new effects or something like that (i think that each vaivora should give an special effect on lvl 1 and lvl 4 instead of increase the final damage of skills (or at least, make the increase on damage be a part of the effect, not all the effect, reducing the current increase on damage to add an special effect too (like Vaivora Mace - Sacred Armor that increase the range of the basic attack while increase the damage from the skill too))).

Moreover, i think that the effect about only increase the skill critical chance +30% from Vaivora Bow - Reinforced Bowstring, is even worse effect than that of increase final damage +100%… It have to be changed. I know that it increase the final damage from an skill too, but as i said, i think that this kind of effects should not count as “special effects”. I think that the increased damage/critical rate/number of hits/range/AoE attack ratio or reduced skill cooldowns, should be only a part of an special effect (like the lvl 1 special effect from Vaivora Pistol - Speedloader, Vaivora Dagger - Carpet Bombing, Vaivora Bow - Orbital Arrow, etc).

Futhermore, i think that lvl 1 effects like the one from Vaivora Spear - Javelin or Vaivora Dagger - Phantom Blade are not worth compared with other effects from other vaivoras. This kind of buffs that boost or add an option to use basic attacks, should be for that kind of classes that focus on basic attacks, boosting the basic attacks for a few hits. Anyway, i think that the knife throw from the effect from Vaivora Dagger - Phantom Blade can hit some objetives at least… Spear throw hits a single target… If u want to keep this kind of effects on classes that are not based on basic attacks, i think that you should make it hit some targets instead of only one (like Gust from Vaivora Rod - Eternal Frozen Land) at least (it could deal more hits too for example). Add the base AoE attack ratio or the fixed targets in the effect.

To end this post, i want to add here what i said in other post (because its a feedback) about that i think that Non-Class Vaivora weapons (Coordination, Echo, Concentrated defense) should have an increased chance to be dropped because we all need it (or at least make another way to get it or etc… There are a lot of options to make this more viable).

I hope you like the idea!!

Cheers

[7aniki]

i think all vaivora should have 10% drop rate from field’s elite, that way everyone will be happy

[Tankhime]

@rgdlfgame

In general, i think that they did a good work with this content but i think that the boosts from vaivoras based on increase the final damage by 100% (or something like that) are not worth

I understand where you’re coming from, but these are actually very crazy if placed on the right skills. Take Ardito for example: 100% final damage on Taglio alongside a full channeling set is absolutely hilarious gameplay-wise. It kind of makes the actual Carpet Bombing-half of the Vaivora look like a relaxing massage in comparison.
I don’t remember them all but Rubric, Roulette, and any dot skill final damage ones are pretty crazy too. I’d be more pressed to say that these need to be nerfed a little or changed because they’re too strong, not because they aren’t worth having.

Onto the topic itself, though:
Being able to equip Vaivora on weapons other than the original would be nice. Basically, I think Shinobi Vai ichor should be equippable on pistols, Highlander Vai on 1h swords, Staves on Rods, Rods on Staves, etc. Whatever makes sense for each class.
Balance out the fixed stats between all Vaivora, including ornaments too. Would be perfectly fine if 2h + ornament Vaivora gave 1h+1h fixed stats (you will aim to have 2 Vaivora ichors anyway), and open up a lot of doors for the enjoyment of classes.

Bringing it back up, you suggested a way to obtain Vaivora from Vaivora Coins at some point in the past too. Something like that would be nice.
Instead of Vaivora Coins, I would prefer a weekly quest from Vaivorachan that awards a shard or two that you can accumulate and craft into any Vaivora.
Offtopic but still on point, I would also like the same for Archstone Fragments. Maybe a weekly quest from the DCP Sage npc as well.
A guaranteed Vaivora that you can choose for yourself from doing roughly 2 months of content is fair imo, maybe even less than that. But something that works into utilizing the weekly cms and sing resets nonetheless.

Like, I just feel like a line needs to be drawn for the sake of progression.
I’ve used up to 20 sing multipliers + many runs without multis within a 3 week timespan once before, and gotten absolutely nothing. I’m sure there’s many with even worse luck. It’s beyond ridiculous how much rng can play a factor in how slow or quickly you progress in this game, and how easily it can stack up against you.
And due to how little content there is to perform weekly, I’d never be surprised if people quit from lack of personal investment and stagnating progression. It’s a very debilitating process to try to stay invested with.
It would do IMC a favor and maybe even build back up a playerbase if they could keep the horizon of gear progression interesting without overcomplicating things.

[Fenatte]

I think cannoneers vaivora could use a bit of a rework.
The effect is barely noticable in the current day of bloated damage% bonuses and its also the only vaivora which affects another class than itself (Matross +3 explosion). Which just shows how reliant Cannoneer is on Matross, but thats another discussion :’)
Cannon shot is already an insignificant skill inside Cannoneer and with the +100% damage barely having any worth and +30% damage reduction for 3 seconds can hardly be vaivora-worthy.
The level 4 effect is okay, but it relies on having both smoke and cannon shot leveled to max, which are both level 15 skills, on top of having to distribute points to other cannoneer skills to proc it in the first place. Which means losing the DPS of other maxed cannon skills, in exchange for more damage from cannon hold procs, which kinda… evens out? Cannon shot is kinda bad right now. Which means the lv4 effect barely even has any impact compared to many other lv4s.
Overall very unimpressive compared to Centerfire, which is one of the most impactful vaivoras out there in my opinion, since it helps significantly with Cannon archetypes biggest weakness, single target with multihits.

[Kisaragi]

@Fenatte

The level 4 effect is okay, but it relies on having both smoke and cannon shot leveled to max, which are both level 15 skills

welcome to the club, Monk vaivora has exactly the same problem, the basic effect requires maxing a lvl 15 skill and the lv 4 effect requires maxing another lvl 15 skill to boost the damage of the first skill by an insignificant amount (less than 50% of the SFR% = less than 100% final damage boost).

Imho the lv 4 effects should be decent effects that bring QoL effects rather than bland damage boosts. In the case of Monk, it could’ve reduced the Cool down time of Golden Bell Shield by 50% so you can have the damage buff always up.

For Rogue, it could reduce the Cool down time of Evasion by 50%, for Psychokino, it could reduce the Cool down of Raise or Swap, on Cryomancer the Cool down of Ice Wall and so on.
Rather than forcing people into certain damage skills, boosting the support skills would be far more interesting and worth the investment.

@Tankhime

you will aim to have 2 Vaivora ichors anyway

I wouldn’t be so sure. Moringponia shield and Glacia trinket are superior to vaivora shield/trinket until they are at lv 4, and even then, there is still a niche for them because of the ridiculous crit resistance of some bosses as in WBR and JST as well as Tel Harsha.

[Ignitor]

@Fenatte, you are right.
Both Cannon Vaivoras (lv1 ) are garbage. maybe ppl use for the crit stat+STR i guess.

Cannon+matross class both the Explosion and Canon shot skill seem to be worthless and those 2 are the skills which most people dont evenuse.

not sure why Both Cannon Vaivora(Center Fire+Cannon Hold) are having the same skill boost like explosion lv 3. like WTF 2 vaivoras are having same skill??

should have atleast buffed any 1 of fire and run,crouching strike, cannon barrage or cannon blast.

[Tankhime]

I agree. I feel like Centerfire only really shows its benefits if you’re doing something like Sing (and with a pelt to make sure everything’s groupped together). Against a singular target it’s… really bad.
It’s pretty memeworthy if you can manage to group up enough enemies to bounce chain explosions with Zook w/o arts + Crouch arts, but that’s so much stacked rng to set up… and not applicable with less enemies or stronger party members. Cannon deserves better than that.

My own idea: Centerfire Vaivora could give all cannon-required skills the Crouch arts buff (Cannoneer’s and Arque’s), and always 3 hits for Matross, 2 for other classes. (As well as keeping the current effect for Explosion)

As for Cannon Hold: I’m not sure… it seems like a more defensive approach Vaivora. Maybe enemies that hit you while you have the damage reduction buff are burned (by your hot cannon) and take 20% of Sweeping’s sfr every second for 5-10 seconds?

[Ignitor]

@Tankhime

Maybe enemies that hit you while you have the damage reduction buff are burned (by your hot cannon) and take 20% of Sweeping’s sfr every second for 5-10 seconds?

Yea that effect would be Nice… the misrus canon(Burn Damage)) like Effect.
i remember seeing in Ktos thread that future Cannon+matross rework had Sweeping Cannon implemented with this DOT effect… not sure if it made to LIVE.

Sweeping Cannon
Skill factor changed.
-Current: 2361 + [SkillLevel -1] * 2361 (Total 11805%)
-Change: 1805 + [SkillLevel -1] * 1805.3 (Total 9026%)

Skill function added.
-When using Sweeping cannon, an area will be created that deals damage over time.
-The area lasts for 10 seconds and deals 10% of Sweeping Cannon’s damage every second.

nevertheless, both Vaivora Cannons needs serious rework…but i m sure they probably wont make CANNON classes meta…as its unpopular and not many care about it anyway.

If Mergen,Ranger are in “S” Grade class.
then Cannoner is a “B” Grade Class… thats how its always been.

[Fenatte]

Personally i think Centerfire is fine, Explosion and Centerfire are consistenly my two top damage skills by quite a margin, so it does help a lot in the single target department.
I just think cannon hold feels like an effect that glacia cannon could hold in terms of how unique or impactful it is haha. It feels more like the level 4 effect is something that the lv1 effect should’ve been, with the smoke grenade reliance removed.