Tree of Savior Forum

Enchanter is terrible, enchant lightning is a slap in the face

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#1

I registered on this forum just to make this complaint. And that is, enchanter c1 is terrible.

Let’s go over the skills:

1. Agility
Here we have a stamina buff that, (1) oracle does better and (2) more than half the classes in the game including the enchanter herself do not benefit from. The evasion chance is so negligible it may as well not even be there. Wow! in fact the evasion buff might as well be a big joke. Ha ha! It raises evasion chance. not.
Suggestion: this buff goes to the dumpster, or, the evasion chance is increased significantly for its usefulness to be on par with the other rank 8 buffs.

2. Enchant Armor
A buff shop. Nice! Except that the buffs are hilariously bad and in the week that I had my shop set up, there were two clear winners: the 5% mdef, and the 1% attack nullification. Wow. The only saving grace was that these buffs last 24 hr and are relatively cheap to produce. I don’t have too many complaints other than that the values for the rest of the buffs need to be tuned better for them to be worth it. Specifically, the cleric buff duration needs to be DRAMATICALLY increased. The SPR to CON needs to be either changed to draw from more than just SPR, or, perhaps, go the other way around. Armor durability is fine.

3. Craft Magic Scrolls
Wow, let’s take a heavily criticized mechanic from pardoner and make it for wizards, with an even more laughable list of skills to pull from! AND let’s make it 3x more expensive! Everyone’s happy. Not. The list of scrollable skills needs to be seriously reconsidered and the cost dropped dramatically for it to ever be worth it.
IMO, the scrollable list should include more skills, such as
Lethargy
Sleep
Surespell
Reflect Shield
Teleportation
Spiritual Chain
Stone Curse
Slow
Stop
While class-defining skills like Joint Penalty should never have been scrollable to begin with. And, reduce the cost of production!

4. Enchant Lightning
This skill is potentially the biggest slap in the face to wizards. Here is an r8 skill that adds a piddling amount of damage to skills. 500. A whole 500 damage!! when dragoon2 at the same rank gets skills that hit for 16,500 dmg base on 2 overheat 16s cooldown. How are these numbers even comparable?
But the kicker? You make it so that one line (one line ONLY) of PHYSICAL attacks get converted to lightning, presumably so that it synergizes with all the multipliers lightning damage has such as linker’s joint penalty attribute, cryo’s frozen mob attribute, and taoist’s storm calling. But this doesn’t apply to magic attacks. The enchanter herself does not get to benefit from this synergy. Because…??? There’s no good explanation for this. THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE.

5. Empowering
I don’t even understand why this skill exists. The way it prevents mob aggro is cool, but that was a bug that’s already fixed in korea.

TLDR:
Agility: Increase evasion buff
Enchant Armor: Re-tune the less-popular buff values
Craft Magic Scrolls: Re-evaluate the list of scrollable skills and lower the cost of production
Enchant Lightning: Increase the damage buff and make the lightning conversion applicable to magic as well
Empowering: Stupid worthless skill

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#2

I agree with almost everything except Enchant lightning(It should change the basic wizards’ to lightning no doubt about it):

  • If you look at low damaging skills and assume EternalDreams’ formula is correct, elemental damage(+500 lightning in this case) is calculated after defenses and crit. So if your flame ground(lv1 = 16s, 1 tick every 0,7s) was dealing 1 damage it now should deal at least 500(minus enemy’s lightning resist ofc) per hit. So without considering any multiplier in the formula you get ~11k damage just from enchant lightning. This skill’s max lv is 15 so 1500 in the future.
  • Cryomancer is in the wizard tree so you don’t need anyone else to combo.
  • Every extra line will recieve this damage, see how everyone loves arde dagger? The only other elemental damage option is the Lion Head Dagger(which you can use too) and it only gives 300.
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#3

If I recall correctly only neutral skills become lightning property whole with enchant lightning (Magic Missile, Flesh Cannon).

Honestly I’m actually happy that Enchant Lightning doesn’t turn elemental skills into lightning. I’m a PyroChrono and getting my fireballs to become fully lightning would kill Agni’s Necklace effect :).

Empowering seems to also increase your damage, I have received some feedback where Flesh Cannon hits were increased from 5700 to 6400 thanks to it.

#4

So the skill is good because wizard has trash skills that will hit for 1 without a high end weapon? That’s some backwards logic i think. Also there are no other multipliers to consider, nothing multiplies elemental damage.

I don’t see how that’s so bad/wrong? That’s like saying archers shouldn’t have ground skills of their own because Capture is a thing, or that swordsman shouldn’t be able to apply strike/slash/pierce debuffs because they deal all 3 damage types themselves - not to mention Taoist and how cleric’s tree as a whole is the most well structured in the game as far as actually being able to build diversely instead of “get c3 of this and that otherwise you’re trash”.

The wizard tree as a whole has to be the one with the least self-synergies among all 4 - everyone just gets linker + whatever the ■■■■ they wanna play because linker is THAT broken. We have about 3 ways of boosting lightning damage (which even if added together doesn’t amount to much), and yet literally one lightning skill, which also happens to be rather bad. There’s a class built around buffing ice damage which skips the only other class that can deal ice damage in the tree (if balance was a concern here then the buff shouldn’t have been 300% to begin with).

#5

Were they perhaps underleveled before you used Empowering? As in 5 or more levels below the enemy.

#6

IF the formula is right, elemental damage is multiplied by Enhance attributes, armor advantages, type advantages, bonus% from skills(meteor/ cannon blast etc) maybe even murmillos helmet attribute

Actually, i said the opposite ‘-’. It is good, just like murmillo/rodelero, barbarian/doppel, corsair/hoplite, druid/dievs etc

#7

Sorry, i must have misunderstood then. It looked like you were saying the reason it doesnt work on magic is because cryo would synergise with it, and since it doesn’t… :sweat:

Also yeah my bad, elemental damage definitely does get multiplied by the same multipliers, i was thinking of blessing-esque damage bonuses for some reason.

All in all, i still don’t think it’s a buff quite worthy of a rank8 class, it’s barely a thauma2’s worth of damage and we all know how that went. Buffing all lines of damage is one thing, but at this point in the game it’s pretty pointless unless you’re a qs3 i feel.

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#8

I think it would be pretty ineresting to have buffs changing the elements of attacks, but they’re kinda blowing it by throwing ■■■■ like a 500% lightning damage buff on Taoist.

Currently on ktos it seems sacrament is turning everything holy in a sense, and they made holy do 5x damage to demons :sweat:

#9

I saw an video around with wiz3, pyro, thauma 3, enchanter. That guy was solo-destroying mission bosses D:

one Enchant Ice for my cryo pls /o

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#10

Yeah i saw that video too, kinda hard not to when a single piece of gear is basically tripling every pyro skill’s damage :nail_care:

#11

There is a placeholder for lightning and ice of that necklace. If they implement it and it works with the enchant lightning transforming physical attacks, enchanters will only use C instead of Z :stuck_out_tongue:

#12

Those necklaces don’t work with any source of damage other than skills sadly, at least agni anyway since that’s the only one available atm. what it does is basically incur a multiplier on each skill: most pyro skills are hovering around 2.5x-3x, incinerate is about 2x and meteor is still 2x as well, i.e. still hot garbage.

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#13

The first statement is demonstrably wrong.

I hit enemies with 2400 MDEF for 1 damage. Use Enchant Lightning and still hit them for 1 damage.
I hit another enemy with 1500 MDEF for 1 damage. Use Enchant Lightning and now hit it for around 300 damage (my MATK is 1300).

Enchant Lightning is added before defence calculations.

Admittedly, it’s not as bad as OP is making it sound. It’s 500 damage to every hit for everyone effected. It can add tens of thousands of damage to some skills.
Only problem is it’s AOE is so tiny you’ll never get many people with it.

Everything else OP said is pretty much correct.

Though I’d like to add. Enchanters are a crafting and vendor class. But they cannot make any money at all. Enchantments last a day so you never make money from them, and the scroll selection is so trash and expensive people do not want to waste money on them. Most of the skills you can make into scrolls have one use and quickly end. They’re not like Daino or Barrier which are incredibly useful in many situations.

Also the only Enchanter attribute in the game is a joke. Waste of money.

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#14

I also believe it is included before criticals so yeah, I remember early versions of the formula having in a slightly different order(or i am reading it wrong). The point is this skill is focused on weak multihits instead of rofldethrone200kdamage

Enchant Fire all over again

#15

That is a good question, I will check if I can get you the answer. In either case, it is proven to be of some use.

#16

It’s funny, in one of my saalus runs the other day it could have been so useful… Basically the enchanter was like 15 levels above everyone else, so it was basically a oneshot fest. But the bastard never used it, probably didn’t even have it :japanese_goblin:

Also i’ve heard it can let you into dungeons w/o meeting the actual level req? But even that’s still pretty niche.

Perhaps it would have been more effective if monsters suffered the same penalties as we players do for fighting higher leveled enemies.

#17

Basically with Empowering you are able to access areas before the level you need, as well as reducing the exp penalty if you are too below.

It’s a weird mechanic indeed. Though thinking about it in the long term, Enchanter C2 would be able to get the skill to lv10, now that’s some change :O.

#18

It’s a shame the exp penalty range was increased so it’s massive now and there is never a reason once you hit rank 8 to be outside of it (310 covers 290 to 330, almost the entire rank 8 level range and 280+ is fast levelling due to the exp reset).

#19

i think the new R8 circles for wizard ara a fuking mess but enchanter is usefull if u have a good build to get some sinergy with the buff of tis clas.

1.- Enchant lignthning os a good buff for multi hit spells builds even if the elemental factor of tis buff is buged, also aplies a plus of damage on dots like burns or bleedings
2.- agity is a mess but its soppose to be better than black hole, if u get over 80 of stam u can get over 40% flat chance to dodge an atack (and never say if tis cant be magical a atack or not.) , and dont have a cap of hits dodged
3.- the real use for the magical scrolls on a a build is get 2 cds gor the price of 1, if u have pyro 3 with enchanter may be u can put 4 flame ground or 2 fire pilars at the same time and when the fuking hipe necklace come to itos everyone will try to do combos with pyro spells scrolls
4.- empowered could be the better spell of all the circles now, cos is the only thing who help to clear the maps and do quest without fight all the unbalanced mobs (i get lvl 315 on 2 days by that buff)
5.- is true, the only good buff of enchant armor is the 5% of Mdef but its a loot of Mdef (15% with 3 pieces) and with the new weapons the full builds sure can get over 2k of Mdef base

#20

Some interesting points brought up that I’d like to respond to:

@DogeSummoner it was already pointed out but the added dmg isn’t applied after defenses and even if it were, its added damage is simply bad. Thaumaturge is in a similarly bad position. Considering that priest, a circle 2-4 class, gets blessing which not only out-scales enchant lightning lvl 5 but also is applied after defense, I cannot honestly defend a rank 8 support class with little else in its kit having this scaling. I feel that people are saying oh well it’s okish, it adds um 16.5k dmg to frost cloud!! While ignoring that yeah that’s the base dmg of a single hit on a low cooldown overheat skill that aforementioned other r8 classes have. It…does not…compare. At all. 1.5k to quarrelshooters and a few k more to chaplains, so they get to rejoice, maybe.
Sorry mates but considering the power creep with every new rank, it’s laughable, ridiculous even, to say that 1500 added dmg at rank 10 is going to be in any way relevant. 1000 would make it maybe relevant in r8 when every other dpser is dealing damage in the tens of thousands, except for wizards lel. I mean that would be maybe 10% damage buff, but, let’s dial back our expectations when yaknow new r8 buffs/debuffs are in the 100%-500% range. I actually do mean that last bit genuinely. :smiley:

@Anarth I’ve done testing on this before making complaints. Verdict is that neutral or not, NO magic whatsoever converts to lightning, ONLY physical. Beyond that, no, fireballs turning into lightning would not kill Agni effect because Agni’s multipliers are hardcoded to the skill itself, not the element. Empowering does not increase your damage, but it would reduce the dmg penalty suffered against higher level mobs.

@meiohjp Yeah I suppose there’s a niche use for basically “smuggling” underlevelled players into a level-restricted dungeon or whatnot but what’s mystifying to me is, why? Why is this a skill? It’s such a bizarre thing that I can’t really think of a good use for. By the time you get it, the real question is, what dungeon/instance content is so necessary to shove an underlevelled player in, where they wouldn’t just get their ass kicked because they are underlevelled, where if that was the case you have to take a buffslot for 100% uptime so as not to let them fall under penalty again, and why would this player want to be in there necessarily?
I mean maybe if a lvl 314 wanted to run the Fantasy Library and needed to get in NOW and not wait one more level? ??? I can see that being a service, an enchanter temporarily joining a party, buffing the lowbies, letting them get into the instance, and then leaving…I guess…maybe…for whatever weird reason this needed to be a feature…lol.

@javier.mendez I already did a lolrant about the actual scaling of enchant lightning but what it comes down to is, I don’t think that the actual numbers works out to anything significant enough in the context of rank 8. Rank 2 priest buff is already comparable to these numbers. The new gems, the new headgear enchant revisions that are coming, only make this buff even more laughable. But I digress.
Agility’s description sounds awesome, it implies that half your stamina = chance to block. But that’s actually not the case right now and in fact I don’t even know what it does, but it’s clear that what was described and what is delivered are not the same thing. I think if we got the buff as described, it would be pretty awesome and create a nice synergy with oracle and so on, but by the same token I suspect that we won’t ever get nice mitigation like that as wizards, since mitigation is MAH CLERIC SPECIALTY.
Empowered causing mobs to not aggro you is a bug that is already fixed in korea and should not be considered a feature.
I agree that the 5% mdef per piece is okish, considering it’s a cheap buff that lasts 24 hrs. I mean that’s decent…of course a single nuaele card is 10% and you can get 8 of them, but hey, I’m still not complaining. The other buffs are what need work.

I think in general this class feels like it should be a low rank class, like maybe rank 5 or so, akin to pardoners. It got the crafting and buff shop staples of a “money making class” but then three weird buffs that go in totally different directions with bad scaling and 0 self-synergy to boot that mostly seem like they were scaled for low rank content. This class falls so clearly behind the rank power curve and barely even helps the wizard taking it, while maintaining the expense that not even very many rank8s are willing to spend.

Here’s a funny one: you ditch your warlock and become a pole of agony scroll salesman, selling lvl 1 scrolls to magic users who want to increase their dps. It costs you 2500 per scroll to produce, so after market taxes, 2775 at minimum to your buyers. Except that for some reason new rank 8 mobs have like 8 times more mdef than they do pdef so for a lot of people this uber skills scroll hits 1s…or maybe in the hundreds. But wait! lvl 5 is available! At…12500 a pop, or 13875 after tax.

Whoever designed this is so out of touch that even for ktos where players earn literally FIVE TIMES the silver of itos, it’s still expensive. And they didn’t bother adjusting it for itos.

Amazing.

Yes, I am sour. Enormously so.

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