Tree of Savior Forum

Dungeon Matchmaking Tool: Fine as it is

General Discussion
#1

Before starting to explain why the dungeon matchmaking tool is just fine as it is let me state one, very simple, thing:

"DO NOT, and i repeat “DO NOT” answer to this tread saying something like: “eh… but if you try to enter the dungeon with a premade party you get kicked out of the game”. Everyone knows that… it’s a bug… bugs need time to be solved.

Asking to change a legit game mechanic because there’s a temporary bug in a system compares to cutting your head off because you have an headache."

And now, lets go to the actual tread.

I am one of those people constantly stating the obvious gameplay design of this game and trying to find ways to improve them and as such i’ve been higly invested in the “1:1 trade - team storage - silver team storage” treads… those are fun breaking for a lot of people and will makea lot of players and potential customers leave thus crippling the game and the developers.

But the dungeon matchmaking tool working as it is now it’s NOT a bad gameplay mechanic and i’m going to explain why:

We actually have two ways of playing dungeons (well… we have three if you count the “solo” option):

  • with a premade party
  • with the matchmaking tool

PREMADE PARTY PRO:
You get to “pick” the classes that will be in your party thus creating a balanced and effective party that most of the time will not have any problem completing the dungeon.

If you don’t have friends online you can always ask players to create it in that, seems to be completly unknown, way of communication called “talking” or “chatting” since we’re in an onliue game.

PREMADE PARTY CON:
You “only” get 450% exp from dungeon runs (at least i read it’s 450%, anyway a bit less then using the dg matchmaking tool)

DUNGEON MATCHMAKING TOOL PRO:
You get 600% exo bonus during your dg run, if you can complete it, thus allowing for a much faster leveling up experience.

DUNGEON MATCHMAKING TOOL CON:
You don’t get to pick your party members… so you might end up in a totally useless party, no healers, no tank, in a situation were it’ll be almost impossible to finish your dungeon run.

This system actually show a really nice “Risk Vs Reward” system that balance out all the chances:

WANT TO PLAY IT SAFE AND GET EXP AND ITEMS FOR SURE?
Then you give up on the exp bonus and the risk

WANT TO BE GREEDY AND GO FOR THE BONUS EXP?
Then you got to take a risk and know that it’s not a “given” that you’re going to finish the dungeon.

If the dungeon matchmaking tool was changed in order to let it create “balanced parties” with healers, tank etc… then this change would totally destroy eny possible reason for creating a party yourself and stick with people you know.

If the dungeon matchmaking tool was changed… the only way to balance the game again would be to take away the 600% exp bonus from the dungeon run done with the tool and bring it back to the usual 450 thus not giving anyone disadvantages.

So if something should be proposed for a change should be:

“Make the matchmaking tool so that parties come out balanced and we can use it even if we already have 1-2 people in a premade party to fill empty slots and TAKE AWAY the bonus exp making it be 450% like for premade parties”

But as long as i go on seeing people wanting a different matchmaking BUT with the exact same bonus if not even more… well this is just plain “little kids whining”

4 Likes
#2

I agree i see no problem with the que / premade system as it stands and have used both.

Also can and have completed que dungeons with no healers/tanks its not impossible.

Edit: i do have one complaint i would like to be able to used the que finder with groups of 2-4 even if it removed the xp bonus.

#3

You, Mr. White Knight, are delusional. Sorry, just stating the fact.
From day one random matchmaking was introduced to MMOs, it has never, ever been a gamble of “Let’s see if I can make it without a tank and a healer for a bigger bonus”.

It’s to facilitate solo-focused players who, on occasion, enjoy a dungeon run or two. Bonus for random solo queues is there so that players who mostly run with a premade would have a reason to occasionally run solo.

And guess what, not only “no tank and no healer” is NOT something sane players want to risk for a rather meager EXP increase, it shouldn’t be there in the first place. It’s just that given the current class selection, only Peltasta-derived characters can tank properly. Which would mean forming a proper group would take FOREVER. It’s just bad design, plain and simple. Other games with lots of classes, like Rift, had tank-capable classes based on Warriors, Rogues and even Clerics. Which made finding tanks a lot easier.

So no, this is NOT fine. Not only we need better rewards for queuing solo (double/triple box rewards for solo, maybe?), we need more tank-capable classes, too. And a system capable of creating a balanced group - which, sadly, doesn’t exist right now.

2 Likes
#4

Yeah… only one single problem: Other games DO NOT give players going in dungeons with a matchmaking tool bonus exp over players going in with a premade party.

If you guys want the matchmaking tool to create balanced parties then give up on the 600% bonus exp and have everyone have the same 450%.

Or maybe wait… you expect an MMO (Massive MULTIPLAYER Online) game to actually penalize playerss wanting to play multiplayer to give advantages to solo… that makes sense ^^

#5

The random matchmaking is flawed and should check for every role in the trinity before forming a party, the RISK involved in matchmaking comes from playing with people you dont know and trust, risk should not come from a badly designed party matchmaker

2 Likes
#6

The one thing that I would change is to give some additional EXP bonuses for “most likely unoptimal” parties that get matched using the party finder.

If using the party finder:
Base Exp = 600%
1 of Each Class = 650% (this already exists, I am just putting it for reference)
No cleric = 650%
3 of the same class = 650%

#7

Ugh, care to tell how many tons is that rock you’ve been living under?
World of Warcraft even rewarded extra LOOT for queuing solo, and additionally rewarded “hard to find” classes like healers and tanks. FFXIV had daily quests that awarded nice stuff for queuing solo - heck, probably every game out there with a concept of “tanks” and “healers” in dungeon queues rewarded this.

It’s perfectly normal, because otherwise nearly no one would be willing to play in a (potentially) incompetent group and rather use premades.

1 Like
#8

So you’re saying that giving 600% bonus exp in coparison to the 450% exp of a premade party is not “giving additional exp bonuses”? :open_mouth:

#9

And here instead of the extra loot you get a TONS of extra EXP, so you really should stop complaining.

Thank you for proving my point tho since you said it yourself that there’s no other game that rewards solo players with extra exp.

#10

I’ve yet to encounter any random group that failed to complete a dungeon so far.

From experience most of them seem to end up better than premade runs so far.

#11

Math is hard, eh?
30% bonus exp (compared to what a premade group gets) is nowhere near adequate as a compensation for having to tackle a dungeon in a group that may take considerably longer to beat the boss (if at all).

#12

I am saying “most likely unoptimal” parties should get even more EXP… as kind of an incentive for players not to just quit (which apparently some people have done when they didn’t have a Cleric). It may take them longer to complete the dungeon, but they get 10% more EXP for doing it.

#13

You’re right… we should do it this way: people that manage to finish a dungeon with a party created via the matchmaking tool automatically gets leveld up to lvl 280.

Everyone happy

#14

I like how some people conveniently like to forget the main advantage of solo mm: time. It can take multiple shouts, microphones and waiting till you get a party that both has 4 different base classes and isn’t something lacking in damage as well. Meanwhile, all the time you’re “saving” by having your “ideal party” was probably enough to run the dungeon twice in mm mode with randoms, as the typical queue time for me is 1-5 minutes.

You need to land on a really terrible and undergeared party for dungeons to become anywhere near “impossible”, especially now that pardoneer shops are starting to appear in towns.

1 Like
#15

I guess you didn’t get the memo… this is Tree of Savior.

Here we reward EXP for queuing solo, and people here are willing to play in a (potentially) incompetent group rather than use a premade because of it (as they have been doing for the past 10 days).

#16

Being in a guild (or even having a bunch of friends in skype/teamspeak) kinda remedies that, but yeah, for a non-social player time is an issue as well.

#17

Which I find rather inadeqaute.
Premades get 450% bonus exp.
Solo players get 600%, a 30% increase that comes with a risk of not completing a dungeon at all or taking over an hour and wasting a number of soul crystals/facing a large repair fee, as opposed to (comparatively) smoother run a group with a least a tank and a healer is usually capable of.

#18

I don’t understand why you’re complaining,you have both options,
Don’t like the random party one cuz you take 1 hour to finish simple dungeons and you think the bonus exp is not worth it?
Then take the other option.
I mostly do the latest one myself as well.

#19

This pretty much screws solo-oriented players over.
Blizzard didn’t add solo rewards on a whim - they did it because players complained. And players ARE complaining about no-healer groups.

#20

I fail to see why solo players can’t find a premade party with the classes they desire?
Are they so l33t,hardcore 30 years old veteran wow/ragnarok/l2 players that can’t stand other people who are not at the same level?

When I create a dg party it doesn’t take me more than one minute to find a premade party,using only 1 megaphone.