Tree of Savior Forum

Dungeon Changes

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#1

Dungeons are pretty lack-luster right now, even with the auto-queue system being fixed(Thanks IMC!)

There are some HUGE issues right now with the dungeon system:

  1. Dungeon group leader

The tank class should ALWAYS be leader of the dungeon. They are about as rare(or more) than healers right now. They even have a skill that requires them to be party leader to even use(lol?). This would give them guaranteed leadership for their skills. The leadership means nothing but party leader. Leader powers should be disabled to prevent abuse.

  1. Vote to Kick System

This is needed so badly and should ONLY be for random queue groups. Whether you make it traditional style of 3/5 votes to kick, or leader(tank) has power over this, it is NEEDED. We need the ability to refill and remove. Trolls, bad internet, or real life problems can destroy groups in later dungeons where it matters.

  1. Healer

A group can just straight up have no cleric class at all. As a DPS(going hybrid) Paladin, we can get flagged as full-time healers. That is dangerous for a party and can be quite expensive(potions). I don’t mind being the groups sole healer, but having a healer in general is pretty important. I’m not sure how you guys feel about this, but I guess it’s time waiting vs. having a pure healing class. Personally, hybrid healers are better than waiting 5~?? minutes. Just requiring a cleric to fill the group would greatly improve dungeon experience.

  1. Bonus for joining in progress

Giving the player a bonus XP buff after completion, extra silver or a boss cube if they missed out on a boss would be an appropriate reward for losing out on all the XP they missed for joining in progress. Mobs are more than half the reason people join dungeons. Of course boss rushing exists, but that should be saved for premade groups. Not sure how this could be calculated(sounds like a lot of work, but I’m sure a system could set up a proper reward according to mobs dead when dungeons finish).

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Hope this gets some attention for a later patch–as there are bigger issues right now. You can post any feedback and I may add it to the list if this post gets enough attention for IMC to notice. I would also like to add that if you lose members or your group falls apart, you still get the daily dungeon consumption for entering.

Last Edit: 4/26

#2

Even having a cleric C1 is better than having no cleric at all the difference is huge. Not so much an issue in first 2 dungeon but by 115 w/o a healer depend on how much aoe your party have you basically are stuck and can’t finish the instance.

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#3

Exactly, even a hybrid support is good. The heals scale off of base % at the least. Obviously an INT healer would be great, but minimum hybrid heals are better than none.

#4

From my experience, the game does not even attempt to create a balanced party. At all. You may get thrown into a no-healer group (at this point your best bet is to disband), you may get no tanks, or you can get multiple tanks.

While I understand that with current class roster it’s a huge headache to design a system that is capable of matching “balanced” groups since there’s no telling if that particular swordsman has even ONE level of Provocation attribute or that cleric isn’t a full dex monk, but something needs to be done. I’m fine with longer waiting times - it’s still better than waiting a bit and landing in a group that has chances of survival comparable to those of a mayfly over a river full of starved fish.

Dungeon Matchmaking and other nonsense
#5

Just form your group if the quality of party members isn’t satisfying you.
Everyone queued for the dungeon is at the totem anyways.
I agree that boss rush is an issue.

#6

Of course that’s the easy solution, but that doesn’t fix the completely broken matchmaking system. Can you imagine dungeons at higher levels? There will be absolutely no point to do them if it stays like this.

I actually had a group ruined because an overleveled player decided to solo the boss.

@ Xenobius

Tanks are pretty important, but what matters is the leadership to that class if there is one. If a Cleric is anti healing stats(like my build), the heals are still there and scale as a base % of HP. I’ve had to heal multiple dungeons on my Paladin with 8 int and we did fine. Cleric class is vital to dungeon groups.

#7

The current dungeon matchmaking is really bad, there’s no thought to it it seems. The past 3 groups I’ve had at least 3 other clerics… you can image how much that sucked… dungeon took FOREVER.

When I first used it I thought it would match us up with the 4 base classes and one other because that feels the most balanced composition but I was disappointed to find myself in a party with 4 other clerics.

I also dislike the fact that going into a party composed entirely of randoms (including you, priest who did absolutely nothing!) rewards me with more EXP than playing with my friends.

Also, this doesn’t have to do with the dungeon party finder but I wish there was a more streamlined version of finding party members like in other games. Where when you are looking for a party you can choose the role you are playing and if another party is looking for that role then you get joined. Good matching instead of trying to go through each channel screaming “NEED HEALER /DPS/TANK” and getting crickets. That of course isn’t a high priority but it would help ToS get out of the dark ages of MMOs a little.

#8

No, Players cant have a vote system and Tanks are not even needed.

#9

xD

Heal needed…

I did 217er dungeon with a pure dps group.
Worked just fine and fast.
The only problem was, that we had only had a fulll dps non pel tank xD.
Everyone used 20~30 pots in that run.

#10

I think we should be able to chose our role. Like on the character information tab (f1) have 3 check points, one for tank, one for dps and one for support. Then the player can chose what role they are and queueing would only match a party if 3 dps, 1 tank and 1 support are found.
However just implementing this would cause ‘trolls’. people choosing support when they wouldn’t normally qualify for a support class. i.e Swordie 1 hoplite 3 dopel 1 dragoon 1 -> saying they are support.
So there should be a check when the player tries to select their role. A skill check, if they have no skills that are deemed in the support category, disallow them to pick that role.

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#11

I would love this in addition to a vote to kick system. A GM replied to my other thread about vote to kick, so we might be getting that soon. I’m just trying to improve the system for those who actually care about it. Of course there will be trolls and we cannot stop that, but at least we can make groups have a healer. Tanks aren’t required, but help a lot. Healers make or break a group.

#12

How would the game determine who is the tank is there is more than one swordsman in the group? What if there are two swordsmen in the group with the exact same class configuration? What if the swordsman does not want to be party leader/take responsibility? What if the swordsman is not tank-build? What if the swordsman has crappy equip compared to the rest and is not able to keep aggro/survive as a tank?

What if the leader(tank) is the idiot who messes up the run for everyone else? If, according to your suggestion #1, the “tank” gets auto-lead then there is no security to ensure that the tank is not an idiot whom everyone wants to kick.

#13

^Point made above for tank and kicking vote.

I agree that the system is not totally optimal since I heard that some parties had no heal at all.
I also witness someone that did not participate in the dungeon and was just here getting all the exp…

Since I am playing a Cleric, there wasn’t any problem concerning the heal and most of the times, even though there was no tank, the party was doing great.

Frankly speaking, the kicking vote is the only thing that might be added…But not by the party leader but from a…Vote?

I think this need more discussion and brainstorming to find a solution.

#14

My anecdotal experience is that I often do not get a healer, and end up with groups like 2 archers, 3 mages. While we still get through the instance (190 most recently), and have relatively high CC/DPS, it is certainly more costly/less effective than having key roles in the group. Personally I think this doesn’t need to change - as has been stated already, there is a work around (forming your own group). A dungeon queueing system that doesn’t require you to be at the entrance (or does) with role based entry and a loading/forming timer that worked would be ideal but lets face it, this is a while away yet.

Vote kicking creates the issue of “who is coming in” and “what/where are they coming in to”. Players could kick someone they dislike before the last boss? or someone could leave/get kicked most of the way through a run, whereby someone seeking a full run to get max value from their daily dungeons then suffers. You’d need to also implement features around votekick is my point here, like no dungeon usage penalty if you are going into half a run etc, or something that will make players feel ok/happy about joining a group half way in (bonus loot/silver/xp from boss?)

#15

I understand what you’re saying, but it’s not that difficult. If a tank gets leader, and there are multiple swordsmen with similar builds, does it matter? As long as one has the party leader buff working it’s doing it’s job. The leader should have leader for that purpose and that alone, NOT kicking power.

As I stated in my other thread, kicking should be from a 4/5 vote with a reason and saved chatlogs from the dungeon and possibly damage/healing done for reviewing clarity. Every system can be abused, but I don’t know what else they could do. Of course a party of 4/5 on voice chat could abuse this, but what can you ever do about a premade 4/5 being assholes/immature? If someone was participating in a dungeon(doing lots of damage/healing) and get kicked from a dungeon without anyone saying anything(a group of 4/5 immature players in skype or some voice chat); wouldn’t that be suspicious?

The only alternative for joining in progress could be if they missed out on a boss kill to give them a cube for it. Cubes are the only thing worth while and worthy of compensation if they missed out on a boss fight. Of course this is something that needs to be well-thought over and won’t come for some time, but I just hope to improve dungeon quality for players who get a wasted run due to some troll/dc.

#16

Implementing kicking and then implementing the several other features to make it work are not really worthwhile doing at this point in time. I’d personally much rather IMC resolve issues with queueing stability rather than working on enhancing the queueing as a feature, in my opinion, in a way that isn’t a massive benefit.

The 100+ talt i’ve received from dungeons doesn’t compare to the XP i’ve gotten from them in my opinion. Only having 3 dungeon runs and missing xp from one can mean millions of missed XP (depending on which one we’re talking about). At lower levels it’s not that pertinent, but later on I feel like it’s pretty critical XP gain. Back on topic, they could resolve this by giving the player a bonus XP buff after completion, extra silver or a boss cube if they missed out on a boss also. I feel like this as a feature (being able to join derelict groups) is a much better feature to work on as it will save groups in need and get people into dungeons faster.

OP you should summarise some of these ideas so IMC can more easily review them.

#17

I edited the fix in, thanks for the input. That does sound better for a proper way to give players something for what they missed out on.