[DropPerKill] Drop rate system- DPK- Explained [Updated]2

[Ingel]

I’m pretty sure you have to read people’s post thoroughly if you want to go against them instead of instant bashing and throw words in their mouths.

People can’t talk for themselves apparently. How lucky to have you in this thread.

yep i did, i guess i cant explain my point… not that good at english

No problem then

Also it would be nice to show us some proof if you claim something

[Deathvale]

This thread is a real treat to behold. Drops are rng based not based on kill counts. I am 100% sure of this because I farm a LOT. I have gotten items that have a low chance to drop to drop for me 3 times in 10 minutes and then seen it take 2 hours before getting one. But in farming the item I see an average in the drop rate also. It only dropped 3 in ten minutes once and it only took forever once maybe twice. It usually takes 30 to 45 minutes to get a drop.

Just to further clarify the situation I was the only one there. I have done a lot of different types of farming also. Channel switching and staying put. I have farmed areas with lots of players and/or bots and I have farmed completely empty places.

What this whole thing is is called gambler’s fallacy. Believing things have some effect on chance that doesn’t exist. I feel like I need to rub my lucky rabbits foot or keep a 4 leaf clover on my desk while farming kinda crap.

Until IMC makes some kind of statement saying for sure that the drops work specific way other than standard rng methods used in basically every game then you can safely say the drops are rng.

Also just as an added bit of argument. It is easier to program drops as randomized then it would be to create a system where drops happen at a specific number of kills like this thread claims. In order to have each monster drop an item on a set kill you need to track the monster actively and also track the same monster for every channel. This is a pretty huge cost to sever side resources and wouldn’t make much sense to do when a couple lines of code can do an on death loot generation while needing almost no server side resources.

[Takemi]

We already have evidence of DPK. I understand that many people want to deny that it exists due to feeling threatened by it, but it would be best to observe the truth rather than to try to hide from it.

Now, offer some counter proof and then we can take your reply seriously. As of right now, the only evidence that has come forth has shown DPK to exist. The proof you can offer to counter this is showing two DPK items dropping within a short interval on the same channel. When it comes to this topic, one can’t debate it with words alone.

Here is some data to back up DPK theory I choosed Mark Tunic as sample. Mark Tunic is rare drop from Black Maize with “?%” drop chance. Addons were used for the research: “Item Drops”, “Monster Tracker”, “cwFarmed”, “LKChannel” Three experiments were made: Experiment #1 - empty channel in during one session. Experiment #2 - channel with people. Experiment #3 - prediction of drop Mark Tunic on empty channel Experiment #1 Experiment #1 was made in 5 sessions: Session 1

SS1. Kill #367. Channel’s kill count is reseted

SS2. Kill #471

SS3. Kill #580

…

[lordshredder]

DPK was mentioned in the pre-CBT patch notes:

http://toswiki.treeofsaviorgame.com/patch_notes
Scroll down to October 1st:

• “Change item drop is affected by DPK (Damage per Kill?)”

original patch notes:
http://toswiki.treeofsaviorgame.com/patch_notes_korean
"- 아이템 드랍 방식이 DPK로 변경"

And it was found by data mining the files.

[HowYouSoGudd]

OMG you just proved DPK does not exist. Thank you kind Sir my eyes have been opened.
I’m not smart like some of the other people here, so I dont require any proof, your words alone are enough to sway my heart.

[Ingel]

Also just as an added bit of argument. It is easier to program drops as randomized then it would be to create a system where drops happen at a specific number of kills like this thread claims. In order to have each monster drop an item on a set kill you need to track the monster actively and also track the same monster for every channel. This is a pretty huge cost to sever side resources and wouldn’t make much sense to do when a couple lines of code can do an on death loot generation while needing almost no server side resources.

This statement is a real treat to behold.

Are we talking about the same game called Tree of Savior?

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Speaking of “pretty huge cost to sever side resources” and common “sense”

There are separate timers for each population of mobs on each map.
There are two types of respawn: normal and dynamic (ambush)

To all this, IMC added in iTOS two separate time checkers for most of maps:
2 minutes for small mobs
5 minutes for large mobs

Doddler's research reveals some confusing contradictions in the way monster spawns are set

A while back, Doddler discovered that each map on the server has intervals where it checks whether monsters should spawn yet. Where things become problematic is in the current interval settings: Each map is set to check for small/medium monster spawns every 2 minutes or so, and large monsters every 5 minutes or so. Now, that’s extremely slow, but nothing out of the ordinary yet, right? Well, when Doddler checked some of the monsters’ individual spawn timers, each one is actually supposed t…

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Wake up please, IMC’s coders did not search for easy ways

[Blehbl]

DPK was mentioned in the pre-CBT patch notes:

http://toswiki.treeofsaviorgame.com/patch_notes
Scroll down to October 1st:

• “Change item drop is affected by DPK (Damage per Kill?)”

original patch notes:
http://toswiki.treeofsaviorgame.com/patch_notes_korean
"- 아이템 드랍 방식이 DPK로 변경"

And it was found by data mining the files.

Yeah the data I found on google about drop rate with percentage seems like the one before this.
One thing I noticed though.
There are evidences of DPK as in recipe drops in this post,
as well as evidences of RNG as in gem drops.
With these 2 I concluded my thought that this game has both drop systems involved, if not 1 overwhelming the other and the other just enhancing the main.
To support what I came up with, when you read the link you posted,
Oct 1st: as you mentioned DPK exists
Oct 14th: Adjusted item drop rate < drop rate can be applied to both percentage and DPK
Oct 17th: Production Boss, Reduced drop probability of Mirtis Headress (Headgear) by 미르티스 (Mirtis) < probability only applies to percentage but DPK
Oct 22nd: Fixed a problem where some monster have 100% drop rate < proof percentage RNG exists
It doesn’t show any patch notes after november, and also IMC refuses to share the information on drop rates(either rates of RNG or DPK). So only way to figure out which item belongs to RNG and which belongs to DPK is to make posts on somewhere now I guess.
Would be really great if those wiki sites with ?% drop rates states needed kills or rounded off percentage for RNG items when it becomes clear for the specific item. Although if it is RNG probably just impossible to get the value at all lol.
This game seriously needs some solid data like back in RO time.

[Blehbl]

OMG you just proved DPK does not exist. Thank you kind Sir my eyes have been opened.
I’m not smart like some of the other people here, so I dont require any proof, your words alone are enough to sway my heart.

Thanks for the TL;DR

[Ingel]

With these 2 I concluded my thought that this game has both drop systems involved

Finnaly!

You would have come to this conclusion much earlier if you read the thread

@FlanFlan Drops Per Kill (DPK) Testing using the gloves from Deadborn Scap Archer’s gloves. See the post from @StratosLash for verification. Gloves (according to the test) dropped every ~105th kill regardless of who did the killing on the same channel. Kill count was maintained by farming on an empty channel (verified empty using LKchannel). This only applies to items with the %? drop chance from the datamined iCBT info on TosBase. For a quicker test, OP suggested you can use infrorocktors.

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You seem to be of the opinion that IMC would not go though the effort of making two systems, one being RNG based and the other being DPK based. The fact is that not only would this be simple to implement code wise, but it would also make for cleaner drop tables. Instead of having one huge drop table with manually input % drop chances, you have a smaller % drop table for “small” things and a second drop table for rare drops that just contains the name of an item with a fixed integer.

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If you use TOSBASE.COM for exemple and look for an item and see percentage of drop being “?%” means it relie on DPK. Lets see some exemples of DPK itens :

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DPK is true, only applies on items that drops with sound on it and a ?% on its drop rate.

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Exactly like you said, there is a mix of RNG and DPK on this game. Back in ICBT TOSBASE.com got the hold of the drop table till monsters lv 198 if not mistaken. As you can see the green gem is RNG based. My post and explanation are valid for DPK items, for Lizardman that would be the bloodstone and brigadine armors.

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There could also be an RNG system along with DPK. With gems as my example there could be a 1/10,00DPK and then a .001%(1/100,000) for it to drop. Ofc thats pure theory with 0 basis but a possibility non the least.

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Huh? But Green Gem from Lizardman is NOT a DPK item, just normal RNG. DPK items are listed as ?%.

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It may also just be a mix of DPK on semi rare things while the rarest things are just RNG.

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I choosed Mark Tunic as sample. Mark Tunic is rare drop from Black Maize with “?%” drop chance.

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We can maybe say they use this DPK system on regular drops including semi rare drops. However it’s very possible on the really rare items (like monster gems) it’s just RNG. So far the testings were on white / blue items or recipes.

[mo1910]

DPK needs to die it’s unfair to everybody involved

[dahdoczock]

DPK needs to die it’s unfair to everybody involved

Everyone contributing a kill is involved, so its unfair to everybody playing?
Its only a problem once no-one farms on a mob that requires like 10k kills with only a few spawning.
Its neither fair nor unfair on its drop distribution on players, as everyone has the same chance of being the one recieving the drop on first kill or on last kill. Everythin in between (if you only want the drop once) equals RNG.

[mo1910]

It’s not fair to the people grinding for the item because some random idiot can come in and steal the one last kill that drops the item.
It’s not fair to random idiots because unless somebody is grinding for the item they have -No chance- of ever seeing it drop. There is no random drop it’s purely brute force DPK.
and no, not everybody has the same chance to be the one who gets the drop. Again, unless somebody is grinding for the item -There is no chance for the drop- So you have three choices. you’re a thief, you’re grinding forever, or you have zero chance of getting the item.
It’s not fun. It’s not fair. It’s stupid and it needs to go.

[dahdoczock]

Your missing something very important there.
In a pure RNG environment you may look for something with a dropchance of 0.01%, then your chance of recieving this item on your first kill IS 0.01%.
In a DPK environment with a set of 10k kills = 0,01% rng, your chance of getting the item on the first kill 0.01% and increasting with every kill.

Sure it sucks not getting a drop multiple times in a row as RNG would make it possible, but this could be intended to have a maximum existence of items.
And in worst case you will never see the item when its overfarmed, but this also applies to RNG.
And if the item is totally unfarmed, you can be sure to recieve it in a given time.

Supporting RNG I could list:
Is it fair that a group found 2 dark lord cards on directly consecutive kills? Hell no, but surely its fun for them.
Is it strange that there where like a million stormy knight cards? Sure but they are nigh worthless for most players.
And why needed my first MVP card to be an osiris card? Well that speeded up leveling a lot at least …

Supporting DKP:
know it, learn it, USE it.
See some drop right before your eyes? Make a coffe and count to 10, then rejoin the fray.
Dont see it drop in an overly farmed area? Then its equal to RNG.
Farm with a Thaumaturg and or Doppelsöldner to double your rewards.
Control the area and dont farm until necessary.
YES, BE THE THIEF!

[mo1910]

You’re missing something important. There is no random drop chance on DPK items. They -ONLY- drop when the DPK threshold is hit. It’s not a mix of two systems, it’s two totally separate systems. More common items have a % chance to drop. Any item on tosbase marked as a ?% chance to drop has -NO SET RATE TO DROP- and is only attainable through hitting the DPK threshold for it.

[dahdoczock]

Point to where I said different?
Actually I am one of those guys who made a video to show how you can use DKP…

Thank you for re-reading.

So again: in worst case your item just dropped and the player dissappeared, there is NO-ONE farming, you have a fresh killcount. Now have to kill 10k mobs which is the average of kills required to recieve a 0.01% drop. Its the absolute same amount.

[Bald_Dad]

Not if the kill count reset on maintence.

[Takemi]

To me it is just the idea of needing to count kills/worry about timing while also dreading the idea of other players popping into a grinding area that makes this system displeasing. Counting kills isn’t necessary, but the thought of how much progress is being made is always there in the back of the mind.

It is the psychological aspect of this drop system that makes it excessively draining–for me, at least. When drops have a completely random nature to them, grinding comes easily because there isn’t any direct or indirect competition involved. However, others may not feel the same way.

[Blehbl]

With these 2 I concluded my thought that this game has both drop systems involved

Finnaly!

You would have come to this conclusion much earlier if you read the thread

I actually read them all, but with all the small pools of tests people provided, it was still questionable. With given numbers of tests in this thread they happened to be occurring in both RNG and DPK. As I’ve actually collected 3 thara frog cards with 10007th kill, 19893rd kill, and exactly on 30k kill in RO. Still have the Excel file that I made to count back then. And we all know card drop is 0.01% and RO was pure RNG. This result can manipulate DPK as well since the pool of drop results are too small.
Also it’s always good to question something as it keeps everything healthier.
I’ve never intended to look down on anyone or go against anyone. Just wanted to get to the point where everything gets clearer than lots of theory crafting going on. As you can see while reading this thread, many people started with assumption until it reached around late 200th reply. Made the system very well debatable and questionable.

[Lewandowski]

Hey dude have you found a DPK cicle that goes beyond 90~110 monsters? I have tested it with 5 monsters and i’ve got everytime the DPK at this range

[Empress]

You’re missing something important. There is no random drop chance on DPK items.

Point to where I said different?

In a DPK environment with a set of 10k kills = 0,01% rng, your chance of getting the item on the first kill 0.01% and increasting with every kill.

Actually in a purely DPK drop system, you have a 0% chance to drop the item until you hit the DPK count, in which case you have a 100% chance to drop the item. It’s an off or on kinda thing.

So again: in worst case your item just dropped and the player dissappeared, there is NO-ONE farming, you have a fresh killcount. Now have to kill 10k mobs which is the average of kills required to recieve a 0.01% drop. Its the absolute same amount.

Actually it is not the absolute same amount. There is no absolutes in RNG so I could either be incredibly lucky and find 10 of the item before you find it once with DPK, or I could find 0 by being unlucky.