Doubts about some swordie classes

[roxasdualsword]

I don’t understand exactly how works some skills of the Swordman, Barbarian, Doppel and an attribute of Highlander specific class like:

1. Concentrate scales with STR and DEX, it says that have an exactly number of hits but, the increased damage getting of this skill only applies for auto-attacks or for skills? I noticed that the damage of works for AA but when is a skill, the damage is the same.
2. Gung Ho scales with STR, but I noticed that it increase damage for Skills and AA… is this correct?
3. Barbarian skill Frenzy gets stacks by attack an enemy, but after the 10th stack it finish? or can I attack with the active bonuses?
4. Warcry when I activate it, it affects determined number of target and they get its defenser lowered and my attack increases, but if I defeat that enemies were affected… Will I lose the increase damage?
5. Highlander’s attribute “Two-handed Sword Mastery: Critical Attack” at max level increase the crit attack 50% this will be viable for a DPS build? or like some people says “It is a noob trap” ?
6. Deeds of Valor description says… “When taking damage, your attack speed and attack are increased, but your defense is decreased.” the increase of attack speed is true?

Thanks in advance.

[Zanni]

• Concentrate scales with dex, not str; the buff that scales with str is Gung Ho; it applies for skills too, but now that it is deplenished by every single hit of multihits, it became pretty bad (and might be barely even noticeable).
• Gung Ho increases damages for Skills and AA because it raises your base atk for 4 minutes (based on your Str). So yeah, this is expected
• Frenzy gets stacks by attacking the same enemy, but loses it when swapping to a different enemy (unless you got the attribute that lets you maintain stacks between different targets) - so I guess this is what may be happening
• about warcry I unfortunately don’t know, sorry (my bad)
• Highlander increases crit atk, not crit rate; so it isn’t really useful unless you are critting very often with 2 handed swords
• I don’t have a doppel either, so I’m sorry (again)

[ZeroFoxGiven]

Agree with what @Zanni said.

To add:

Frenzy gets stacks by attacking the same enemy, but loses it when swapping to a different enemy (unless you got the attribute that lets you maintain stacks between different targets) - so I guess this is what may be happening

W̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶F̶r̶e̶n̶z̶y̶ ̶a̶t̶t̶r̶i̶b̶u̶t̶e̶,̶ ̶i̶n̶s̶t̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶c̶k̶s̶ ̶g̶o̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶a̶r̶g̶e̶t̶,̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶d̶u̶c̶e̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶h̶a̶l̶f̶ ̶(̶i̶.̶e̶.̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶c̶k̶e̶d̶ ̶1̶0̶ ̶t̶i̶m̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶v̶i̶o̶u̶s̶ ̶t̶a̶r̶g̶e̶t̶,̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶’̶l̶l̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶r̶t̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶5̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶c̶k̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶n̶e̶x̶t̶ ̶t̶a̶r̶g̶e̶t̶)̶.̶ ̶

thats not how the attribute work. it halves the max stacks you can do, but it wont reset when you hit different target.

Warcry when I activate it, it affects determined number of target and they get its defenser lowered and my attack increases, but if I defeat that enemies were affected… Will I lose the increase damage?

No, you’ll keep it until the end of Warcry’s duration.

Highlander’s attribute “Two-handed Sword Mastery: Critical Attack” at max level increase the crit attack 50% this will be viable for a DPS build? or like some people says “It is a noob trap” ?

If you’re planning to invest in a decent crit gear (e.g. full leather solmiki or full fietas + sissels and +CR headgears plus green gems on weapon), then it’s worth it as far as I know. I’ll tag @Lostac to confirm.

Deeds of Valor description says… “When taking damage, your attack speed and attack are increased, but your defense is decreased.” the increase of attack speed is true?

Yes, it seems so as I feel it even at just level 5 with me Dop1 Goon3. It’s a diminishing effect though (at some point you might feel like your ASPD isn’t increasing any further) depending on how good your ping is, how high your DEX is alongside other ASPD-boosting buffs (e.g. Chrono’s Quicken). I think people mostly take it for the damage boost.

===

I recommend you check out Lostac’s guide on Doppel here first before heading out and leveling your toon:

Guide to Fencer / Doppel / Bullet Marker [PVE]

Fencer - Doppel - Bullet Marker

Can't find the guide?

[123]

April 03, 2018: Doppel Guide updated to match current changes. Fencer Guide Updated only until pre-bunshin changes, so it’s a bit outdated now, currently working on some builds before updating it. Bullet Marker Guide is still the same and relevant.

You can also use this skill builder to plan your builds as well as check out the details about the skills and attributes: https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner

[Naght]

Concentrate scales with STR and DEX, it says that have an exactly number of hits but, the increased damage getting of this skill only applies for auto-attacks or for skills? I noticed that the damage of works for AA but when is a skill, the damage is the same.

they apply to both, but unlike gungho, it’s direct increase. like you AA for 1k, use skill with 1000%SF = 10k.
Concentrate increase your AA (let say you conc have 500 damage) to 1,5k, and your Skill to 10,5k.
pretty worthless skill imo.

Gung Ho scales with STR, but I noticed that it increase damage for Skills and AA… is this correct?

Yes

Barbarian skill Frenzy gets stacks by attack an enemy, but after the 10th stack it finish? or can I attack with the active bonuses?

you can maintain the bonus until the duration expires.

Warcry when I activate it, it affects determined number of target and they get its defenser lowered and my attack increases, but if I defeat that enemies were affected… Will I lose the increase damage?

no, you get the attack bonus for the entire duration.

Highlander’s attribute “Two-handed Sword Mastery: Critical Attack” at max level increase the crit attack 50% this will be viable for a DPS build? or like some people says “It is a noob trap” ?

hmm i dont know how the new formula for crit attack. but HL attribute increse your stat crit attack.
if it get applied to SF too, its quite strong, but if its like before just added to crit damage (pretty much what concentrate does), then its not that usefull.

Deeds of Valor description says… “When taking damage, your attack speed and attack are increased, but your defense is decreased.” the increase of attack speed is true?

LOL, thats old description. DOV already change. before you need to get hit to stack its attack boost, and it also increase attack speed.
Now it’s a pure attack increase X% and -Y% for your defence.

Edit :

With the Frenzy attribute, instead of your stacks going back to one when changing target, it just reduces in half (i.e. if you stacked 10 times on previous target, you’ll start at 5 stacks on next target).

thats not how the attribute work. it halves the max stacks you can do, but it wont reset when you hit different target.

[ZeroFoxGiven]

thats not how the attribute work. it halves the max stacks you can do, but it wont reset when you hit different target.

Thanks for clarifying. That’s technically what the skill description says.

Not sure if it’s a bug but I’ve been noticing the stacks not halving at all when changing targets during Frenzy’s duration.

Here are sample screenshots:

Notice how in the second one the max stacks is still at 10 and there was no chanage in my PATK. This is why I just presumed that the description is just mistranslated and that in actuality the stacks just resets back to 5 when changing target then goes up to 10 again after 5 hits on the new target since that’s barely noticeable when you’re spamming skills or AA-ing with good ASPD.

Not sure if I’m missing anything.

[Naght]

You are a barb3.
frenzy level 10 have 20 maximum stacks
with attribute its 10 max, but it wont get reset if you change target.

I hope this clear things for you =D

[ZeroFoxGiven]

Ah that solves it. Got it now. Thanks!

I take it it’s better to turn the attribute off when against bosses, right?

[ZeroFoxGiven]

Oh one thing I noticed just now is that if you switch to another target but uses only skills (no auto-attack), the stacks won’t reset.

[roxasdualsword]

Thanks a lot @Zanni @ZeroFoxGiven @Naght for resolve my doubts, now I understand a little more. Do you recommend me to remove Zucken? people says that the skill is the worse of the combo: Zornhau, Zucken and Redel, the build that I’m planning is this:

https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#1116669991.233f5d6985.be915a6aaa.1f31536a867891a1

Could you guys give some recommendations? I already tested Shinobi and remove Barb3 but I see that with barb hits really hard.

Edit: I put points on Restrain for the combo with Cyclone.

[Naght]

You can get Zucken if you like, but Zucken is very weak. it’s like 1/2 redel damage.
I myself remove it, since I think it a waste of SP.

if you dont want to do shinobi idiotic quest, then you can go with bar3.
but shinobi always better than any other build due to 6x damage on most of the skills.

skill pointwise :
I’d take 1 punish for earthquake though.
and max pain barrier instead of restrain.

[Zanni]

First thing: never remove points from Pain Barrier. Every single point in this skill counts a lot - it is one of the strongest buffs in the whole game. You’re better off removing points from Restrain and leaving it 7/10 for having the Bash knockdown CC than not maxing PB (even with the Cyclone combo).

I wouldn’t remove Zucken since you need more damage skills to compensate partially the lack of Shinobi, thus you need more skills in rotation imo, even if it is half the damage of Redel (if you went Shinobi, removing Zucken completely then would be more adviseable so you could invest in C3 cloneable skills; also be aware that Shinobi does MUCH more damage with Sw3-Barb2-Doppel1-Nobi than with Sw3-Barb3-Doppel3).

[roxasdualsword]

Thanks again guys @Zanni @Naght a last question… Assuming that I’ll take Shinobi for the R9 what would be a good rotation for destroy a boss?

[Lostac]

https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#111166999d.233f5f6785.ba955565a5.411f536a7a91a5.55254411

I use this for my sw3 barb shinobi.

If you’re going to take barb3 instead of HL3 on a non shinobi doppel, you’ll need zucken. You don’t have a good set of skills to work with and barb3 is mainly taken for cleave and buffs.

Bunshin>Cleave>Zwer>Sturtz/double slash>cleave>seism>Katon/Kunai

[zerosky1991]

There are alot points which u need to take note like . First to know your skill , attribute/skill dmg%/buffs/ slash/strike/pierce . There things u need to make things useful will be things like extra in skill says certain monster or debuff to get extra dmg . Also how to know which stats are u going . STR go for skill highest damage and buff only (Gungho) more high physical atk . DEX is rare and difficult one with critical attack/atkspeed seems hard to judge/gauge but this stats goes well with skill with atkspeed also can take advantage certain attribute like highlander critical atk 50% because dex increase critical atk too . DEX good with auto attack but fps low will slower it down .(Concentrate) this skill alot con not recommended at the moment probably need to wait rebalance for this skill .(Frenzy) this skill is a great buffer scale with your total physical atk but con is hit other mob/skill(wheel/icewall) will reset but a times when highly recommend to know when to on/off attribute . Dead of valor awesome buff all your skill dmg recommend max it if pve/dungeon at more content out new boss monster has a high dmg scale this skill have to be careful to use 19% extra dmg . All of these skill doesn’t give high attack speed but if u have 200dex total u could able see the diffrence or else don’t take too big expectation for it . Good luck swordie

[Jr.3ooze]

Wrong, Concentrate-Gung Ho now scale with STR&DEX the different is. For Concentrate, if you put more DEX, dmg will increase significantly on Concentrate skill, if you put more STR than DEX, Concentrate provide less dmg. Gung Ho is work the same with Concentrate but in the opposite way.

[Zanni]

Nice, thanks for the correction then. I learned something new now