Will do when i get the peeps again. 
well but you can always buy a skill reset so you should focus on what is âbestâ for each content
also im almost never using helm and seism anymore in srs pve maybe in solo dungeon runs so thats 2 skills you can already cut off
well anyway guys thanks for all the input cya around
Also stats reset incoming Lol. Cheers
Redel and Zucken are vital because multihits and great filler.
Zornhau is a good damage burst early on when youâre not loaded yet.
Cyclone and DoV are your bread and butter.
The two new skills, well the debuff one is a must.
The other one is filler and helps with AoE situations but thatâs about it. The armor ignore is ok.
For Barbarians I suggest getting the armor reducing one to 5 because you lack fillers unless you like pounce. For Highlanders they can ignore it since youâll just be spamming Skyliners for small burst and Moulinet for small burst. Once youâve done those itâs back to just Cyclone.
- Redel at least 1 point (after skill resetting into new attribute)
- Zucken at least 1 point (after skill resetting into new attribute)
- Zornhau at least 1 point (after skill resetting into new attribute)
Max Zornhau if you want an early high damage dealing burst almost on par with Dethrone levels of burst (4.5k times 4).
Maxing Redel is a small increase in the damage (500 or 600, even if it is a multihit this is still small numbers)
Maxing Zucken doesnât increase the hit amounts and the increase in the damage is very minimal per hit.
Strutzhau is a good filler and 2x hit skill. Itâs like Skyliner but with very high base damage.
Zwercchau is not worth maxing because itâs too long cooldown and you literally only use it for the debuff.
pretty much agreedâŚ
imo not worth to put more than 1 point in zucken cause the difference from 1 to 6 is just so little like a few K of dmg more
so i took sturtzhau 5 since im barb and this really helps me out to pull some extra dps while cyclone is on cd having a whole new dps skill on top of what i usually have does just feel good too
only thing i dont agree on is redel where i think it is a noticeable difference compared from 1 point to 6+
Redel:
- Level 1 is 394
- Level 6 is 816 (422 difference)
- Level 10 is 1154 (760 difference)
25 second cooldown ability.
So yes you increase every hit in the multi-hit skill from level 1 to 10 by 760 physical. If that is worth it for you, then go for it. Iâm not sure but I believe Redel is a 10 hit multi-hit? So at level 6 the damage increase is 4220 and at level 10 itâs 7600 compared to level one. Just from skill ups alone.
Zornhau:
- Level 1 is 1291
- Level 6 is 2852 (1561 difference)
- Level 10 is 4101 (2810 difference)
15 second cooldown ability, applies Shock.
Zornhau is a 4x damage skill, but not a multi-hit. With the attribute the increase at level 6 is actually 6244 and at level 10 the increase is 11240 in damage. However since Zornhau is not a multi-hit, your gear only applies the bonus to it once, making it worse. Just from skill ups alone.
Point Iâm making is that Redel is always amazing, but skilling it up isnât a big deal as long as you have the attribute youâre sitting good with the skill. I would wager skilling Zornhau instead is getting more out of your skill points than if you spent them in Redel.
Basing this on my own math and using skill reset to try both skills maxed. Zornhau just has an amazing reach and the low cooldown makes it a great filler and itâs always up with Cleave unlike Redel that is awkward to work with Cleave as itâs still on cooldown when Cleave is up, especially after 2 cyclones you only have one Cleave left for Redel and Zornhau > Zucken combo and once Cleave is off CD you can again fill in a Zornhau in your 2nd rotation along with Strutzh.
This is why I leave Redel at 1 and consider it already ready for attributes and gear upgrades and one day it will greatly out damage my Zornhau. Right now it doesnât.
seems legit thx a lot for the input
so you think the difference in redel dmg isnt rly coming from skillpoints but from gear and attribute right ? just to clarify it for my mind
Multi-hits on every class scale the best. Itâs just how it works.
Itâs just one of the many reasons why people are frustrated Doppel C3âs two new abilities are fake ones. They donât scale so well with gear.
Redel and Cyclone are by far the best scaling abilities. In order we would be:
Cyclone > Redel > Zucken > Punish > Strutzhau > Zornhau
Cooldowns are for these:
55 > 25 > 20 > 18 > 32 > 15
Overcharges are for these:
2 > 0 > 0 > 0 > 2 > 0
(yup, cucked again by IMC with no good overcharges)
Cyclone can be shortened by 5 seconds by disabling the ability to move, but lets face it thatâs really bad. To maximise Cycloneâs potential you want Deeds up and attack speed from Chrono for extra hits. Punish is pointless versus bosses but it is indeed a multi-hit now with the new attribute. Not terrible against groups of leather mobs.
I have Zornhau lvl 1 only for debuff. Shock + Zucken = extra damage, and Iâm Highlander C3 with Vertical Slash. Each debuff gives +30% of damage (Crown shock and Zornhau shock are different debuffs).
Can you post a video about this? I didnt know that applying crown + zornhau debuffs increases zucken damage. I thought applying just 1 shock debuff is enough.
Youâr right about Zucken, but for Vertical Slash each debuff counts.
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so can you post me what is the best way to put the points into doppel if you wanna maximize dps in the longterm ? you can pm me if you dont want it to be public
because idk your priority order kinda doesnt match with what you said earlier for me but maybe im stoopid
also im a barb 3 just saying
ps: id be really grateful 
Itâs rather simple really. Multi-hits scale well regardless.
However something Iâd like to add is that multi-hits also suffer mitigation more than big hits like Zornhau. Every hit gets reduced by defense.
hm from all you told me im thinking about
15 dov ,15 cyclone , 1 redel, 1 zucken, 1 zwerch, 5 sturtz(because i think the points scale better on this skill compared to putting them into redel and zucken) ,6 zorn
dpe 1 just for the fun and utility it provies when you are farming with an oracle for example
please let me know what you think guys or maybe improve my thoughts !
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also im curious about if a 0 invested con doppel would be legit for pve party play o.o
Perfectly legit with new gems and etc upgrade ( you still can get 26k-31k hp off it)
New hat enchants will give 1000 health and new gems will give like 400 to 500 health each.
Wouldnât worry about CON.
ye i thought so too
so since the other thread drew the apes attention
maybe i can try my luck here
can someone explain or confirm to me why dex is dealing more dmg in the longterm ( future proof someone said )
and also how much str i need to not be worrying about block pen without using any block pen gems etc.
i dont wanna take too much of your time but a solid explanation would be really appreciated since i really want to get the most out of my class that i love so much.
i just dont understand how losing so much crt atk and patk from dov doesnt seem to matter at all ⌠especially with a decent crit rate str just seems more worth to me
ps: i read a lot in the str vs dex thread but i couldnt find just one 100% solid information that matches with my experience
also id like to know what you think about my skill point allocation because for me you seem the most knowledgable from what ive read so far in every thread ._.