Tree of Savior Forum

Doppel C3 skill points distribution

Class and Rank Swordsman
#21

I agree. I tried Redel, Zucken Zornhau.

I personally didnt like Zucken (0 skill point). It has a small range and the animation feels awkward. It 's like a downgraded Redel.

Zornhau (0 skill point) is a good filler. 15 seconds cooldown, 4hits (with attribute), average damage but without maxing it, the damage isnt really there.

Redel (9 skill points) feels great to use. It’s like you have a machine gun and the range is medium. And the damage is there together with cleave + zwerchhau. But the cd is twice of zornhau.

Also, i maxed out Sturtzhau because it deals decent damage and you can use it twice in a row and a great filler when cyclone is down.

#22

+1 on this punish easily caps with just 1 point. Stacking knock down mobs works as well lel.

It’s more of a mob mass aoe clear. Each person preference. I personally prefer 1 punish 15 deeds 15 cyclone 8 redel 1 zwer 5 sturtz

#23

Its up to each person preferance (dpe,punish)

But if i suggest learn all 3 skill attribute then reskill is the best option

If you dont have re-skill potion then just go for redel

Offtopic atfirst i really hate punish skill due to knockdown condition especially when i play with joy stick so its lack of skill slot for me, but using bash to knockdown mob really help to survive in high lv map so punish is ok for me now

#24

just sharing

DoV 15, Cyclone 15 (because atk speed yo)
redel zucken lvl 6 both, rest points throw to zwarchheu

everything else is filler and not important

#25

it looks like we have a different focus because in lategame pve punish and bash are completely useless skills also dpe is a point u take from a skill you could boost your dps with … for bash is not even worth to put 1 point and take it from gung ho or concentrate or worst case pain barrier

so i guess the focus is just different

also i wouldnt suggest not taking zornhau and zucken because they still are better fillers than all barb skills or if you are highlander 3 idk tbh if you can afford to not take them but definetly on a barb build you need at least 1 point in those

ofc we are talking about learning attributes and then resetting.

i got 315 clear on daily basis + farming 10f ET

am working on full lolo leather for now + im using gale slasher

610str 140 con 155 dex 6.8k patk with dov 15
300+ crit rate

#26

um are you aware that sturtz 5 deals more dmg than zucken 6 ?

also zwerchhau on more than 1 is wasted points imo because for what i recall it isnt increasing the duration of the debuff i might be wrong tho

#27

It depends on how you micromanage. 200k from a free knock down? i won’t say it’s useless it’s a fill in setup incase you are out of chrono pass arena.

Concentrate is a waste of buff slot. Bash > more useful in this case if you have 1 point from punish

#28

hm hm 250 atk on every cyclone hit is already worth more than punish xD
#waste of buffslot

38x250 = 9500 max dmg added to your cyclone just from pressing
concentrate before it

also my redel deals more dmg than punish and is instantly

#29

Tell me about it again when you discount stone skin missile hole, Barb 3 warcry etc etc etc. Not even daino 11 can save that.

:slight_smile:

250 attack is like peanuts compare to a addition 200k to 22 targets.

Oh i forget. Redel 8 /9 have not a big much of difference i ain’t losing thing just fyi.

#30

i dont even know wtf u are talking about in dungeon party play you will have

haste quicken missile hole ( situational) gung ho concentrate dov
warcry (situational) maybe add stone skin which most of the time isnt even in the party ( priest 3 ? o.o)

so thats 8 buffs as far as i can recall i can have 9 buffs without daino

if you are not using concentrate then you are doing it wrong and even saying 250atk on every multihit you are using is peanuts then i wont argue with you any longer xD

and if you are skilling dpe and bash/punish in a lategame pve oriented build then you are doing it wrong too

sorry ._.

also you make 200k sound like a lot oO it isnt

#31

you don’t take pain barrier.

oh mai so you like getting knock back when doing cyclone and getting stuck in the middle.

With priest 3 you are literally over load of buffs.

Buff limit for swordsman is 8 only. Token + 1
Haste + quicken + missile hole + gunho concentrate dov thats 6. Put in frenzy or warcry you are almost cap out.

No daino? You are screwed. If you have a priest thats a add in aspersion/Stone skin/Sacrament/blessings/monstrance/revive it’s way overloaded.

If you have a thau that’s left arm right arm swell brain. Still overloaded. Anyone of major defensive/offensive is still better than concentrate basically a waste of buff slot.

Gunho scale with DOV frenzy scale with dov so does warcry.

200k To 10-22 targets is literally a aoe of 2m to 4.4m. Do you even pve properly or are you a troll who only focus on single target.

250 attack is peanuts. 88 hits of 250 is still peanuts. as compare to buff that scales way more. O_o

Not to mention these day mobs and bosses go over 400k + what’s 88 hits of 250 er 22k? holy it doesn’t even hit a dent even if you are able to hit up to 3 targets. This is still so little.

Not to mention there are tons of buff way more or even better. Blood letting on status situation. Healing factor etc etc etc.

Do i need to hire a math teacher for you to understand, or are you just sticking to your opinion of I AM THE BEST MY BUILD IS GOD. etc. If that’s the case i rest my talk because it’s pointless if you can’t even look at the bigger picture.

#32

sorry but zucken has higher dmg than sturtz, because zucken is multihit and uses ur phy attack as dmg.

i quote this guy

sturtz is 2 true multihit , zucken is 4? eventually zucken will win sturtz at cap.
When you have everything at max.
Since sturtz is cap at 400k and zucken at 800k.

he is on point, is very easy to hit cap now…my skills dmg been capped from time to time when serpentine buff is present, if sturz requires 2 skill to get 1 skill dmg of zucken, zucken will eventually win as zucken cd is faster 20 sec compare to sturz 30 sec.

u prolly dun have a high phy attack or using lousy weapon thats why u felt sturtz deals more dmg, i duno where u get stuartz deals more dmg…i personally tested both, post ur video check with both attribute 100 and refine ur weapon etc++ and buff up and show the dmg if possible.

#33

sturtz is 2 true multihit , zucken is 4? eventually zucken will win sturtz at cap.

When you have everything at max.

Since sturtz is cap at 400k and zucken at 800k.

#34

bash is very useful imho

off topic:
ur p attack only 6.8?
i got 7.9k, with lesser str by 400, gg lol.

#35

well im not at transcendence stage 3 yet :3

also my gale slasher is + 5 atm only got it like 2 days ago

so ye its 6.8k from dov alone not calculated frenzy and warcry into it

anyway i still consider bash useless compared to the other skills for pve

also i consider the concentrate dmg who adds like 35k to my rotation for free useful

if you dont think so its alright

not interested in any kind of ego war

i lold about you dont take pain barrier tho

ps:
you guys are right about the zucken but idk i rly like sturtzhau because it has a pretty decent aoe ratio

also im not perfect and i didnt mean to offend anyone : )

i still stand my ground tho on pain barrier 5 and no dpe/punish

pps: so are you taking sturtzhau at all aki? also i still dont see why you take zwerchau more than 1 i tested it at 5 points and if i recall it doesnt raise the duration and there are better options for damage also?

correct me if im wrong

#36

Sturzhau is fine. It has better range than Zucken.
zucken is more like a single target ability

#37

bloodletting doesnt prevent you from knockdown which the 315 first boss is doing so when u got no safety zone and he interrupts your cyclone you miss a lot of dps or maybe he just decides to jump away from the safety and doenst want to come back then still you can be interrupted

anyway pain barrier provides like 19-20 sec of safe dpsing without needing any support

#38

Fun fact of why raise Zwerch…in my opinion

Zwerchhau is range skill, not as far as Dethrone, but is the furthest hitting skill of Doppel or just the swordsmen classes that isnt using spear, I ve been using it like a range skill from archer or act like mini-dethrone, its useful to 1 shot archers without con or warlocks with DT, u can removes their warlocks DT easily, or just being cool with it, its a range skill so be creative.

I raised it to increase my GvG and TLB dmg, of course lvl 2 Sturzt is completely fine too, as long as DoV and Cyclone is 15, the rest is debate-able and feel free to raise em as u like, I once considered Zwrachh 5 and Redel 10 too lmao.

#39

oke im not playing srs gvg/pvp with doppel at all so i dont really need it like that prefer saving 4 points for something else but ofc like that it might be useful

anyway if you dont wanna give away too much of your build its fine but what you think is worth more overall zucken 6 sturtz0 or zucken 5 sturtz 1 ?

#40

It’s not about offending anyone.

You are too uptight on presenting points without proper comparison. Or understanding my point of view.

You can take it it’s your choice in the end.

It’s pretty hard to juggle buffs around with DOV warcry + frenzy + pb + gunho (with party ) support.

Unless you want to spend tons on daino ( normally which is the case but you are already on mushroom support which is another issue to consider)

I present to you why concentrate is pretty much a wasted slot which is pretty much true.

Unless there is a change in STR which might occur next time. This puny 250 is not gonna help much meh… (Blessing flats + 600 is also falling off as of now… so it’s a sad thing to see)

As compared to Blessing (who even INT support can surprass you with that little amount of damage +335 +++)

Or the reccent Thau Change. ( Left right arm scales to int. It make alot of thau consider to opt for INT path)

Concentrate is pretty much shiet. It needs a better scaling. gunho sucks too but DOV + which ever stacking will (eventually turn it better), due to the fact Physical damage scaling is still added into it when you crit… so yea.

As for punish it’s a situational Give and Take. I play without it before and i play with it now i feel that taking it for 1 point of redel is better off.

Due to the fact i am still with just Magi trans 60%.
I find that this is better off 90% of the time for mob control. Cyclone has huge cool downs and the aoe ratio is soso.
Often you need additional gear + 1 skill to ram up stuff. I find inputting bash + punish just nice.

Sturtz is way easier to cap for now, but when you reach the peak to beable to push it forward you eventually might want to consider zucken. That’s about it.

You can even run 1 zorn (or crown for proc) then 3 zucken 1/2 sturtz

This kind of skill building is actually the ultimate end game where you need to ram out more rotation damage on when your Cyclone is cool down.

And minimal points of a skill can bring u cap damage. @_@.