The point of auto attack builds is that you DO need to activate most of them together for it to work.
A lot of these buffs actually last a long time so by the time the buffs disappear, the cooldown is almost up already.
And in a party of 5, you WILL receive buffs from other classes, sometimes unintentionally and if you’ve stacked up your buffs fully and a few key ones get erased by accident, straight after you’ve buffed yourself, you need to wait for the full cooldown before you can apply them again.
I know most games are like “the more buffs the better”, except this game is different. You need to use your brain instead of mindlessly buffing yourself/others.
Not really. I’ll use my build for example. I have 7 total buffs.
- Gungho, only because I have no where else to put skill points
- Aggressor, which is crit rate up
- Savagery, which gives extra attack
- Warcry, which lowers defense of enemies
- Flange, attack increase the more you attack
- Sub Weapon Cancel
- Steal
The only buffs I have as a swordie that don’t overlap or have similar effects as other classes are Warcry, Flange, Sub Weapon Cancel and Steal. Gunho is similar to Blessing, Divine Stigma, Swell Left/Right Arm, Vendetta and Enchant Fire. Aggressor is similar to Monstrance and Zalciai. Savagery is similar to Sacrament (Might even be better since you get 2 additional hits. 1 for your main attack and 1 for your subweapon whereas Savagery will only work for your subweapon). That’s already almost half of my skill buffs with MULTIPLE SIMILAR buffs.
The only IMPORTANT for swordie buffs I can see that I don’t have anything similar to is Quicken, Safety Zone, Divine Might (which wears off as soon as you use a skill), Restoration (If it puts a buff on you and not just the Pally), Resist Element (Situational) and Physical Link.
This is where COORDINATION and COMMUNICATION as I stated before comes into play. It’s not really that hard. And most buffs you get are just the same to what you already have anyway.
So would you rather have to wait for the CD to be done or just have buffs up AT ALL TIMES? I think the answer is pretty obvious on that one.
Exactly why having more buffs is a good thing. So you don’t burn everything on one go.
This is my EXACT argument though.
I still don’t see the problem though? As long as you can coordinate with your teammate to choose which way benefit your party the most, then isn’t it fine using any build you want? The good thing about RO and this one is you can build however you want and have fun without worrying about min/maxing as other MMOs.
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AA swordman builds, in paticular Barbarians since you put emphasis on their buffs, are currently the most efficient solo leveling builds or at least close to it.
The concern is that, for instance, a priest may buff you and your frenzy or aggressor may be removed due to buff limit. A plausible concern but I don’t see it being as big of a deal as you make it. Most likely there’s a good chance of a swordie buff being replaced by another dps buff such as Enchant Fire or priest AGI buff monstrance. Auto attacks in this case are still supported and if they are out of range for a buff for w/e reason, well they will have their buffs on.
At higher levels some buffs won’t be used because of the flat unscaled rates. Unless you invest time and money into Concentrate attributes, that flat +19 points damage will get old fast. That and other rank 1 buffs will likely be out the rotation.
Lastly, don’t alienate the auto attack builds that include skills. Most builds tend to include Highlander for for the critical dmg % bonus aND Carter stroke for a strong multo hit skill and wagon wheel for a spammable aoe when they need mobs off them. A few other barb and doppel skills get 1 point in them just so they will have them like stomping foot. I know you mentioned having a balance but it seems a lot of builds seems to already have some of that. And from videos I’ve seen, AA builds seem to do good in partys will mowing things down.
Just because another buff from another class is similar to a Swordie buff doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have both together. For example, if I were a full STR build and wanted to increase my crit through buffs, I can stack both Zalciai and Aggressor. But you won’t be able to do that with your build because you’ve already taken up 7 buffs.
Also, what if you are fighting a boss that constantly knocks you down? You might need to apply Pain Barrier as much as possible so you can actually remain standing to deal the damage. Well, one of your 7 key buffs will have to go to make way for Pain Barrier. What if you were fighting undead and you need Sacrament to boost your damage? That’s another buff space you need to clear out. Because of different buff expiry times, it’s really hard to keep the exact buff that you want. Sometimes that Pain Barrier or Sacrament might wipe out Steal, which isn’t a big deal, but sometimes it might wipe out your Subweapon Cancel or Aggressor, in which case your damage will drop like a brick.
When there’s many buffs that you’re trying to apply, and you’re trying to dodge AOE attacks from bosses, you just can’t coordinate it well enough. And that cleric needs to heal, buff and control his mana and cooldowns and also to focus on 3 other teammates as well, the last thing he’s going to care about is his buff possibly overriding something an important buff of yours, like Aggressor or Flange. Most likely in actual battle he’s going to chuck those buffs on you and move on.
Meanwhile, if my build only rely on 4 buffs, I don’t care if the cleric chucks another 2-3 buffs on me, it can only be better for me, not worse. See the difference? Plus, as I said before, only classes up to rank 6 has been released. Wait until rank 10, you will definitely have more than those 7 that you want, and you’re going to have to start giving up on some of these buffs.
Would you honestly rather have both buffs at the same time than having never ending buffs of similar power? HONESTLY?
I don’t even… No one in their right mind goes full STR as a DPS. You will be out DPSed by EVERY OTHER DPS build in the entirety of ToS. Not to mention die a ■■■■ ton with no HP. Why would you want to RELY on buffs for your lower crit chance when my build already gives you a moderate amount of crit and the buffs just give you HIGHER CRIT WITH NO DOWN TIME? And so you know, skills crit too. So your full STR skills won’t be all that impressive either.
Safety Barrier solves this. So does DEX which your FULL STR does not have. Plus I don’t have Pain Barrier on my build.
Did you not read my reply? Here:
Communication. Then let him chuck all his buffs on me first. I’ll use my buffs after his wears off. Problem solved.
You honestly believe you’re going to use your low level buffs like Gungho, which I already said I put points into only because I have nothing else to put it into, with it’s INCREDIBLE(sarcasm) +50 damage, +100 damage(WOW) with max attributes, at Rank 10?
If you want to gimp your own character, go ahead. Not really my problem.
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Do I have to break each point down 1 by 1 as well? Sigh.
Would you honestly rather have both buffs at the same time than having never ending buffs of similar power? HONESTLY?
Why not? if both buffs augment my build. There’s more ways to play the game than 1. Party play actually becomes a big thing at end game and you’re going to have access to Cleric buffs a lot of times as well.
I don’t even… No one in their right mind goes full STR as a DPS. You will be out DPSed by EVERY OTHER DPS build in the entirety of ToS. Not to mention die a ■■■■ ton with no HP. Why would you want to RELY on buffs for your lower crit chance when my build already gives you a moderate amount of crit and the buffs just give you HIGHER CRIT WITH NO DOWN TIME? And so you know, skills crit too. So your full STR skills won’t be all that impressive either.
I’ve seen full STR builds in streams and they survive fine solo. And yeah, sure, I’ll be out DPSed with a full STR build. REALLY? STR actually increases damage in case you didn’t know /sarcasm. I can supplement my crit with other methods.
Safety Barrier solves this. So does DEX which your FULL STR does not have. Plus I don’t have Pain Barrier on my build.
Then you better pray you get your Safety Barrier up all the time. Pain Barrier is another way to overcome this. Again, more than 1 way to play a game.
Savagery is similar to Sacrament (Might even be better since you get 2 additional hits. 1 for your main attack and 1 for your subweapon whereas Savagery will only work for your subweapon)
Sacrament gives HOLY damage, which works well against undead. 2 blows of the right element > 2 blows of non-element.
Communication. Then let him chuck all his buffs on me first. I’ll use my buffs after his wears off. Problem solved.
Maybe for the beginning of the battle. 2 minutes in, some buffs have expired earlier than others, try and coordinate that again.
You honestly believe you’re going to use your low level buffs like Gungho, which I already said I put points into only because I have nothing else to put it into, with it’s INCREDIBLE(sarcasm) +50 damage, +100 damage(WOW) with max attributes, at Rank 10?
No one is expecting you to do that. You’re missing the point - supplementing auto attack damage with damage skills. Things like max level Cartar Stroke, max level Stabbing, etc. - which you won’t have much of if you go for your heavy buff + AA build.
If you want to gimp your own character, go ahead. Not really my problem.
Having extra skills at my disposal is not exactly gimping my character, don’t know where you got that from.
Think of Daino scrolls as potions. Players return to town for potions/bonfires etc, Daino scrolls is no exception. Daino scrolls can go upto 14 extra buffs (Daino takes 1 slot). Daino lasts 3 minutes. 100 scrolls = 300 minutes = 5 hours. You wont be using them all the time as your not always in battle (travel time, etc). So its perfectly viable.
You personally may not build a character this way, but it does not make a character any less viable. If later there are classes with better buffs, then you manage your buffs around having a max of 21, and learn skills then. But it does not make a character bad for picking up only buffs, or mostly buffs now.
Also by rank 10, I would HOPE that you’ve by now picked up some people that you play with regularly for late game content. By then your party or guild or group of friends should understand your buff management, or at the very least you simply have to mention it. Carrying 7+ buffs by rank 6, with a total of 21 is not hard, 4 more ranks can only add so much more in terms of buffs.
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One of my concerns is that bosses later on may start cancelling buffs with their skills - I’ve seen other games with this feature implemented. If that hits then it’ll render some builds useless…with a set of max level skills you might still be able to rotate their use and maintain a decent level of dps
On a real note, I have a full buff AA swordsman that’s been working completely fine. 2:1 STR/DEX. No problems so far.
As far as the buffs being outscaled at say like level 300+ or whatever I’ll get to that point when I know what’s available to me at that point.
We don’t know how far the skills or ranks go because we haven’t experienced the endgame yet. We’ll figure it out when we get there. When we do, there’s always reset scrolls. :3
Edit: Didn’t mean to /reply @FatePGN. I meant to just post a regular reply. From the bottom of my heart… my bad.
@GoldenCross That would make some builds very inefficient, however, if it’s a status ailement you use Indulgentia scrolls or Prophecy, and then rebuff, or even cure scrolls, or rely on party members that have those skills. If even after all that, it’s impossible to buff yourself in any way at all, then for that particular boss you will be gimped, and your more than likely going to rely on a party.
However, currently, there is no such boss. So it’s pretty safe to go with mostly buffs, especially when most skills (particularly for swordsman classes at different ranks/circles) are not all that great, or useful at all at later ranks depending on your build.
In the future, it may be much more useful to gain new skills, but currently, it’s fine and viable with the content available.
Then you’ve already defeated your own argument. Don’t tell people not to do this and say there’s more ways to play a game than 1.
And I can supplement my STR/damage with other methods. My way just gives me buffs all the time, where yours has down times.
Yes ignore the DEX argument. Gives you credibility.
Holy damage is not nerfed by any element. So Sacrament is ALWAYS BETTER. My build just gives me the ability not to rely on my Cleric. And it also gives me more additional attacks.
This is the point of my build. I don’t have to coordinate again because I’ll have buffs to cycle. I won’t need rebuffs from others.
The only 2 none buff skills I don’t have maxed out is Embowel and Stomping Kick. So my SUSTAINED buff AA DPS is definitely going to be as strong, if not stronger, than your build with your additional 2 skills.
It does if the mob/boss is strong defensively against that type of attack. My build, you can just weapon swap to fit your needs.
Lol yes your magical build.
Again you fail to see what happens when your buffs get overriden, you assume that your perfect coordination with your clerics is going to be flawless, that he’s going to dedicate all that attention to you.
I really hope they implement bosses that wipe out buffs just so your magical build gets rekt lol
Sixpool specifically earlier said that because he has swordie buffs he won’t have to coordinate with the priest to get a buff to augment his dps and your are twisting his words. AA swordie builds SPECIALIZE at being top tier solo-ers with their buffs so if they dont get a priest buff here and there, they’re fine. The skill builds are the ones that would need the priest buffs more.
Now your talking about how you want his build to fail. Salty much?
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Obviously your rebuttal was perfectly thought out. Congratulations.
Literally no one on this thread fully agreed with you. And still you can’t see how absurd your unsupported claims are. I wish you all the luck on your trash build. And pray that you learn how to argue better instead of having to resort to “Hope they make a boss to counter your build. HERP DERP.”
And @FatePGN already “rekt” your argument in literally the first reply.
PS. Watch Steparu’s videos and tell me full buffs aren’t viable. Lol.
It’s fine man. He can run with his trash build all he wants. While I faceroll everything in my way. Lol.
I mean I’m sure he can keep up with my DPS with all the skills he has. It’s not like he needs SP to use them anyway, right? Lol.
Steparu said that Sadhu is better at fast attacking because of its pure INT based attacks and faster than Corsair without much effort. LOLWUT ALL THESE ARGUMENTS. Better just go for Sadhu in that case.
Sarcasm aside, really good vid by Step. Didn’t expect Corsair could hit that much damage though, fast even in his current ping!
I don’t understand this topic, are people already arguing about what the best builds are for each class now? Before we even see the full game and the rank 7+ jobs?
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Playing Solo: use all your buffs.
Playing in Party: use 2-4 of your best buffs+ party buffs.
problem solved.
I don’t understand this topic, are people already arguing about what the
best builds are for each class now? Before we even see the full game
and the rank 7+ jobs?
^this