Tree of Savior Forum

[Discussion] How to make class trees more satisfying

Suggestions Game
#1

First, consider how much you like the current class tree system. Rate it on a scale from 1 - 10 or something.

Next, imagine new class trees that unlocks absolutely amazing skills at C3. I’m talking borderline broken, class defining, scaling skills that you know will be good forever. No matter what classes you pick along the road. Would you be happier with this structure?

The main difference I want to draw for you is what your class tree will look like when attempting to build the strongest possible Wizard.

In the first case, you might be a:

★Wizard, ★Pyromancer, ★★Linker, ★Sorcerer, ★Necromancer, ★Warlock

In the second case you might prefer to be a:

★★★Wizard, ★★★Elementalist, ★Necromancer

  • In the first case, you’re picking whatever’s best at the current level. In the second, there’s more weight placed on getting an early ★★★ to get the broken skill sooner.
  • In the first case, you have tons of skills because you have more unique ranks. In the second case, you’re more focused and have less skill options.

The advantage of the first case, or our current system, is that we end up with what we believe to be the best options that cater to what we want to do. We get a large number of skills to get around cooldowns, which gives us more burst and more solo power.

The advantage of the second case is that you are more unique. The previous system makes nearly every Wizard almost the same with a small difference here or there. This system encourages you to make you want to pick 1 or 2 classes you REALLY want to be and take advantage of ToS’ eventual 80+ classes, instead of the 16-ish (generous overestimate) tree paths with lots of overlap. With a limiting skill set, it encourages more party play because you can’t do everything. You’re not exactly weaker due to the addition of the ultimate skill granted at the ★★★ class of your choice, just less specialized. In addition, you only have to list 3-5 classes when people ask you what you are, instead of 5-8 (when everything comes out).

What are your thoughts on this proposed class tree system?

What are your suggestions for improving the class tree?

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#2

What do you mean? In the current game, you can go both cases

#3

Yes, but it’s not incentivized. People build their classes to be the best at what it does. Currently, the best Wizard for dps will likely include the class choices listed in the first example. Pyro2 could be included in place of linker 2, for more solo single target power. The second example is a theoretical best dps Wizard under the suggested construct.

#4

KR players consider Wiz 3 Elem 3 to be one of the best world boss DPS…Frost Cloud is that op.

In fact, your idea of C3 having class defining skill is already in there.

C3 Wiz - Quickcast
C3 Elem - Frost Cloud

#5

So basically you want every C3 has an ultimate skill? =.=’

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#6

Well yea c3 definitely shouldn’t have ■■■■ skills like meltis

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#7

Ok, now what about all the other class trees and it’s branches? Tons of C2/3 skills suck and are not worth giving up a new rank.

#8

Ultimate skills! I liked a lot!

#9

I’m too lazy to go look at all classes, but the way I see it there’s 2 main reasons for C2/3.

  1. The ‘super skill’ as mentioned here.

  2. More skill points/skill ranks - Take for example Archer, both Oblique Shot and Multishot scales really well and it’s a valid option to go Archer C3 just to dump 30 skill points into those 2 skills, the rest being free to go wherever.

Basic example of #1 is Cryo while Pyro serving as a fine example of #2 (although for PvP apparently Hell Breath is really good for just knocking someone into wall and grill them into wallpaper)

Some class might falls under both (Cleric c3 with the new healing change is worth going C3 for more healing and the 25% damage reduction on guardian)

#10

i definitely agree, circle 3 skills should be at least stronger than the circle 1 skils (as in some cases) or the rank they first appear at.

#11

C3 Cryo - Frost pillar Vacuum cleaner 3000 &snowboulder simulator
C3 Linker - Everything is dot to dot
C3 Sapper - Disco broom trap ( i didn’t hear whether or not that spike thing was good)

some classes have an identity with a sort of unique skill in their kit, but some don’t seem all that appealing.

anyone gone quarrel shooter 3 know if that running buff any good?

some of the classes could use some extra c3 skills or attributes to make them more appealing, but i guess it’s because the other classes gain a sense of identity at c1 or 2 and everything else just seems to be adding little things on top that are nice, but not exactly necessary to complete the players build as other options may appear more viable.

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#12

Quralle c3 probaly the best pvp build for later ranks. Stone throw scales great and can stun and running while attacking is broken. so good for pvp if you focus on it i would go c3 quarrel and one time scout for cloak than probaly musket.

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#13

I like the current class system, I just think there needs to be more skills at c2/c3 for some classes. The additions to Highlander/Priest were a great change, and I’d like to see that for other classes as well. Cryomancer c2, ranger c2, krivis c2/c3, hoplite c3, sapper c3 - these are the classes I’ve played that I think could use some more skills, and would help with this problem.

Actually, for the most part, ( except the c3 for Krivis / Hoplite / Sapper / Cleric ) the c3 of a class is good enough to warrant going for it. Highlander, Cryomancer, Ranger, Scout, Wugushi, Priest, Pyromancer, and Linker are classes I’ve played that have a really strong c3 that defines their class. I wonder if this is an issue where skills just haven’t been added in yet ( like priest mass heal / stone skin ) or if certain classes just need some attention?

#14

Cryo3 is fun, but not all that strong. CDs are still crippling. You’re basically only good in a party.
Ranger3 is good, but also important to note that all your other rank options, save for sapper 2, are worse. So it’s good in context, but not amazing.
Wugushi3 is good not because of C3, but because of good scaling on c1 and c2.
Pyro’s hellbreath isn’t that noteworthy. It’s basically a worse psychic pressure except against ice enemies.
Most Bokors I see just use their C3 points on C1 and C2 skills. What’s so special about c3?

I agree with the other classes you’ve listed, but I still feel like they could be better.

#15

Hmm I played a cryo 3, and solo’d to 170. It was pretty fun, and I had no issues with the cooldowns. You cycle through CCing everything on the screen, and CCing everything that you snow roll. ( If you use frost pillar + snow rolling together you’re wasting the cooldowns ).

The Wugushi C3 skill is amazing. Although I still think c2/c3 need a couple more skills, or maybe charges on some, the cooldowns are so long you still rely on your previous archer ranks heavily ( see anyone’s review of a Wugushi ).

I don’t remember typing Bokor. My bad there, I’m gonna edit that. :blush: I’ve never even played a Bokor, although my friend played a Bokor c2 with me lol.

#16

You sure it was cryo that carried you and not whatever you picked at rank 5?

#17

I picked pyro for fun at rank 5. :smile:

Putting a flame ground under a frost pillar was actually quite nice though. Most things on the 150-170 maps are leather/plate it seems, so having ice/pierce damage is really nice. Ice Pike does tons, and Ice Bolt helps supplement it. It was one of my first characters though, and I didn’t even realize the potential ice wall had. If I had actually gotten at least Ice wall 5 and beaten on it with a dagger, I could’ve been doing a lot more damage.

#18

If you go a ton of circle 1 you may have alot of skills but they won’t have as much damage and you will be blowing a ton of sp to use them all. At a certain point you even have to ask if your going to use a circle 1 skill that does 2300 when your basic attacks do 2100 already…

My suggestion is adding some % scaling based on skill rank. Like the difference between a 40dmg stab and a max rank 400dmg stab doesn’t really matter if I have 4k attack. Infact I would keep the skills at level 1 for cheaper sp cost.