Alright, so… I did some research on the Monk class, as well as some Dievdirby and Priest circles. I feel neither of the “standard” - so to speak - Monk builds catch my interest.
Cleric > Priest C3:
Most of the Monks I know have been following this path. I’ve seen people mention Stone Skin is “godly”. I feel grabbing three Priest circles only for Stone Skin might be suboptimal, and maybe people are overhyped for Stone Skin once it scales based on SPR.
So, about this build: How “godly” is Stone Skin and how much SPR should I invest to make it work properly as a Monk?
Cleric > Priest/Cleric > Dievdirby C2:
The very few Monks I met who opt not to go as C3 Priests take this path. Again, Owl is considered OP. I once asked one of them, and he replied in truth it isn’t. The fact you have to carefully find a place to put the Owl and it will only attack enemies in front of it render it a bit less useful than most people think. Also, I heard Owl increases its damage from the players INT, which would be pretty bad for a Monk (right?).
For you Diev Monks out there: Is the Owl worth investing the second Diev Circle?
My idea was to go a bit different:
Cleric C2 > Dievdirby > Paladin
This is theorycraft, but this supposedly adds Divine Might support to an already good enough Heal (10+1 healing squares x 2 casts) and increases the number of blocks from Safety Zone to 20+2. Also, it gives me Laima for CDR and Paladin’s Restoration and Resist Elements at a +185 HP and +55 all res rate considering Divine Might is in effect. For some reason, this feels more useful than Stone Skin (since I can get the other Priest buffs elsewhere or even buy them in town) or Owl.
What are your thoughts? Is there anything good in Priest Monks or Diev Monks I am not seeing?
safety zone most leave at lv3-4 and max attribute.
diev 1 bring you nothing much, and for monks the main reason going C2 diev
is PVP
Lamia give slow effect, and there is also silence totem which is extreamly usefull.
owl is just an addition on the way which is nice. not the reason for C2 diev however.
I like more the Diev2>Monk3… for the reason that in high level most not using the priests buffs anyway and just spam monk skills.
what is the difference and reasons you ask ?
Priest3 is not for StoneSkin, sure stoneskin is great and op skill.
but priest3 give you +DEX. and alot of it. and some monks love to go crit.
(focus on STR / DEX to do lot of CRIT.)
Diev2 reason is not owl. it is Lamia slow and CDR, Silence Tree, and Carve Attack which does insane damage.
(focus on STR / CON to survive, better in longer fights)
Paladin is not fit, restoration is not really that good.
Resist elements give you resist by % which is close to nothing since you don’t have much elemental resist to begin with.
Smite or Turn undead based on SPR to actually banish demons. otherwise just decent skills compare to Carve attack lv10(Diev2)
many do the 1 circle paladin mistake… i suggest you don’t.
mostly people take paladin for it’s 3rd circle which is beyond amazing skill.
I love the diev2 approach.
good luck with your monk.
Priest is good, and actually does a lot better than Dievs do in PvP. Survival is optimal there and there’s not much that a Diev could bring compared to Priest. Revive and Resurrection is quite valuable, and is also great in Earth Tower.
Stone Skin is a decent addition, but sadly it won’t really help against magic attacks, and as you said, it’s not optimal since Monks don’t build SPR at all. Aspersion boosts quite a good chunk of defense, and Mass Heal will improve your healing. Blessing, despite not scaling well late game, is still a decent form of support to increase the DPS of yourself and your party members. Monstrance also adds an insane amount of DEX for your party, but it does need constant recasting.
Diev route is mainly for PvE, but performs considerably better late game as their buffs don’t scale off late game unlike the Priests’.
Plenty of the skills cover all of the Monk’s weaknesses - Carve World Tree to ensure you can keep landing Double Punches without fear of getting mobbed to death, Carve Attack helps against leather armor enemies who are resistant to Strike attacks, Laima greatly reduces cooldown of all your debuffs and Energy Blast, and Carve Owl gives you supplementary magic DPS that the Monk lacks, and also gives you ranged damage on the occasion that you can’t get close enough to an enemy and spam Double Punch.
INT actually does little in adding damage in this game (1 int = 1 damage) with the minor exception to Heal and Cure, which you will only use for support. With a decent blunt weapon you will still do some great damage with Carve Owl.
Also an important thing to note is that all you have to do is to set them up first, and then you’re ready to devote yourself to dealing damage. In PvP however they don’t fare as good as Priest routes do, but still perform decently nonetheless.
I see. How does World Tree help ensure you don’t get “mobbed to death” though? You mean in situations where the monsters cast spells, only, right?
For what I see, Priest is good for the buffs it gives, and for healing. Am I right in saying I can consistently get these buffs buying them off of buff sellers? At least the ones that matter? Because Diev has my attention, a lot more than Priest does.
Also, can anyone confirm about Paladin’s Resist Elements giving percents and not absolute numbers? I was mostly certain it was an absolute buff.
I understand Paladin’s Restoration might not be great for later levels, but I am still not convinced Diev 2 is better than Paladin 1. It seems to be all about Owl + World Tree VS Restoration + Resist Elements.
Oh, and about Carve Attack. Is it really worth upping to level 10? Does it get that good?
for the world tree he means that ur safe, its a life saver (im a cleric2>Diev2) 90% of the time monster just sit there following you doing nothing, also good in pvp as long as they stay in the aoe.
and for the preist, most people i see on forums say that priest buffs fall off hard once you get to end game if you dont go chapain and put points in spr. i can expect prest monks to pretty much never use preist skills once they get to end game.
and carve is op, max it no matter what, the scaling is probably the best in game, 1 extra hit per level, the base dmg and scaling are OP.
all your idea are so wrong
first: monk is a pvp, physical type so say no to all releated INT base class
second: monk is a melee fighter and cleric have no dash like sword man so you need an close gap skills
third: monk not work with magic circle skill and statue skill since they only good for sitting duck defense type while monk need to chase ppl and beat em out.
To add with Priest buffs, yes you can buy them from Pardoners but Blessing is quite limited to a number of hits compared to the other two (Sacrament and Aspersio) that lasts for exactly an hour.
Also, with Priests you still have Revive and Monstrance that gives decent support for yourself and party members.
As for Paladins, I’ve read about people going on a single circle Paladin route and they all say it’s not that good. I have to agree since it doesn’t look quite good on paper. Smite is only ever useful against specific monsters and annoyingly knock up enemies just to get its full damage, Restoration only boosts HP/SP healing but not regen, and Resist Elements has too much of a high cooldown to matter (AFAIK around 3 minute cooldown versus an 85 second duration at level 5), and its debuff doesn’t complement Monk well either. Turn Undead also doesn’t look that good.
Paladin is not that good at all at a single circle IMO, it only shines should it be c3, and you can’t get C3 Paladin and C3 Monk together. I would think other classes could take advantage of C1 Paladin better.
There’s not much skills at C2 Diev to get besides maxing out Carve Attack. And just to note, Carve Attack is an amazing alternative to Double Punch when facing against leather monsters. Leather monsters have 50% resistance from Strike attacks (Double Punch included) but receive 50% damage from Pierce attacks (which Carve Attack does) which makes killing them much faster. Even with INT based Dievs, Carve Attack does some pretty insane damage with the proper set-up/enemy type.
Anyways, I’m going to address your points. There’s a lot of things wrong with what you said that you might want to look into.
Every class/build can PvP, some just work better than others.
Monks barely have any choices pre-Monk and Dievderby and Priests are noted to be the best possible routes for them. Others are still experimental but have some decent potential (Krivis).
If you have read the mechanics guide I’ve posted above, you’ll also notice that there’s a large difference between MATK and INT, and how not a lot of magic skills scale with INT itself but more on MATK. Monks have natural MATK while wearing Blunt type weapons and so they can deal just as much damage or just a little bit less than INT based classes, so INT based classes would still work for them.
Also, most of the abilities from Diev and Priests don’t even scale with INT at all, except maybe for Mass Heal (that has a % flat heal so it wouldn’t matter to add INT for it at all) so that just makes your statement wrong.
This is really only a concern with PvP but not so much in PvE. Even then, taking a whole circle just to gain a gap closer is NOT worth it. Monks are melee and there’s really little we can do about it as that’s how the Monk was made. If you’re thinking of going Sadhu just for its gap closer, you will be extremely disappointed, because even Sadhu’s teleport is only useful for running away rather than chasing people.
Point of a Monk in PvP is to catch people through one of your crowd control abilities (Hand Knife and Palm Strike) and land One Inch Punch to ensure almost certain death for them.
The thing unique about Monks is Double Punch. 0 CD 0 SP requirement means you can spam it, and will work as your main ability in killing enemies and your opponents. This is also why Dievderbys route meshes well with the Monk as these statues will act as a buffer while you devote most of your time dealing damage. Priests as well, since you use the buffs to supplement the damage you deal.
As for your build, Sadhu is possibly the worst class you could take out of all of it. Sadhu is extremely contradictory to the nature of a Monk. Out of Body skill is not STR based. Astral Body Explosion is MATK based. Prakriti is not a chase skill, it’s an escape skill, and you will see later how bad it is at chasing enemies. And the most important part is that the core skill of Sadhu (Out of Body) does not simply mesh well together with the Double Punch spam nature of Monk.
You can out of body, hit with dagger and double punch. But that requires a lot of set up.
I am doing both monks right npw. Priest3 and diev2. Diev is lower level and since im shring gear does more damage. But moons strance is somethjng i miss… and 1 level is enought. It only increases debuff with levels and it sux anyway.
Also stone skin is powerfull, but puting points in spr kind of lame. But i guess for block penetration and mdef it might work out
your first point:
monk skills are all physical and you need around 200-250 dex to have good accuracy against high dex archer build. And the rest of stat you have to increased HP to not got one shoted. So INT or even STR is not viable.
the problem about diev skill is for defense type it’s not mobility enough for those rush attacker like monk.
and about priest it’s hard to take c2-c3 since you will have no close gap for pvp.
your second:
so you build monk for PvE ? So that 's the best idea i have heard. You don’t have close gap ? you can’t even land a single skill to them, just got kite to dead.
your third:
so you just run up to enemy and crafting statue ? no one will let you do that and you have to fight in the statue range ?
last:
sadhu is not also close gap, the knock down effect from explosion is very helpful. what’s the different of using prakriti to in/out combat ? sadhu is for utility not for the dmg that 's why int is not a problem here, And it’s not like you out of the body just for double punch, it’s just main for an close gap
Monks need STR… You can’t go Monk without STR. STR actually adds a lot more damage in PvP compared to PvE. It will also increase damage of DoT’s from One Inch Punch and Palm Strike by a large margin, sometimes even downright letting you kill enemies off the DoT’s.
And no, you don’t need INT as a Monk, even with Diev or Priest routes. I didn’t even say anything about adding INT. The point is that Monks still have MATK so you can take advantage of MATK based abilities regardless.
I think the point about needing 200+ DEX is already a given for PvP for any physical attack based character, I don’t see why you need to say it.
See, the thing is, Monks are screwed indefinitely for ranged, that’s how it works. You look too much at the PvP standpoint that you also miss PvE. You also miss the point that PvP is not balanced around melee classes and whatever you do, Monk will be outranged and kited by plenty of other classes.
Statues are mostly for PvE but they still support you in PvP pretty much regardless. I reckon you haven’t experienced how large scale PvP yet and how statues really do matter in zoning out your opponents that have much, much deadlier skills than you do.
As for Priest route, you take advantage of Stone Skin and Revive along with your other buffs to ensure you don’t die as easily.
This game isn’t just about PvP.
Monks naturally don’t have any gap closers. Sadhu’s teleport isn’t even considered a decent gap closer. In fact, no class in the game have decent gap closers except for a minor few (Psychokino Swap, for another enemy to another enemy at least, is one example). Sadhu definitely isn’t a decent gap closing class to consider.
The point is that if they don’t try to go near you and land their skills, you’re free to charge your Energy Blast from afar which is bad news for them the moment you fire it. Even if they choose to fight you within statue range, they’ll be at risk of the debuffs the statues provide. -20 mspd from Laima statue is no joke, it will make anyone walk instead of run in range, World Statue will also simply shut you down. You also don’t want to eat Carve Owl damage, it hurts really bad even w/o any INT. With dievs you fight range with zoning which creates and opens up opportunities for you and your allies in PvP, which is really valuable when done right.
You can’t even Double Punch with your spirit, only with your body.
And what if you knockdown an opponent? You need to set-up OOB first which means your body will be exposed for a beating so you can’t use it at mid or melee range, just at long range. Then you can’t use Prakriti immediately since you let your spirit explode, so your opponent will stand up before you can even set-up another OOB and walk your spirit over to use Prakriti and connect your Hand Knife/Palm Strike for additional knockdown. This is essentially why Sadhu is very contradictory to the Monk in the first place.
As I said, Sadhu is extremely contradictory to the nature of the Monk and it doesn’t bring anything to help you. Let me ask, have you even tested this build yet? Do you have that Monk with the same build?
If you have proof that it works well, then please post a video displaying a Sadhu-Monk in action in PvP using the same ideas you’ve conceived about how it should benefit the Monk. At least then I’d be convinced that it does indeed work. But if it’s just theorycrafting then I tell you, there are a lot of things that you need to think about first before even attempting this kind of build.
Monks aren’t about going in like rambo and trying to kill stuff - nope, you are there to find a perfect opportunity to go in and land your crowd control (most especially Energy Blast and One Inch Punch) to key enemies like enemy Psychokinos or Plague Doctors that can easily control the battlefield. Here’s a PvP video to give you an idea on how high level PvP looks like as a Monk, and what you should do and not do in order to achieve victory:
As you can see, there is no way to approach an enemy like a Psychokino rashly else you’ll suffer getting CC-locked to death. This is why you use the opportunity to use your defensive abilities and longer range abilities as a Monk to ensure you can get close enough as possible or be able to shut him/her down before he gets a chance to do anything. If you go up there and try to rambo things out like what you think a Monk is supposed to do, then you’ll have a really bad time. In PvP, there’s simply not much a Sadhu can give you in PvP as opposed to other builds.
because that monk face no archer then you think it’s fine with 11k hp ?
have fun against archer who deal 18k-23k with snipe and cannon burst and 5v5 battle league is more messy than this that’s why you can approach at a blind spot with fade or out of body, also an energy blast well place can change the tide of battle at a blind spot. I play in krToS since it grand open and just quit like 2 months ago, so i think i have enough exp about 5v5 pvp. GvG is a different story since people don’t have default equipment
monk are not mean to be pve and you have to suffer it, i’m not say i forgot about pve but you can pt at field grind or random queue at dungeons
i’m much into pvp because what’s the point of monk for pvp when there 's ton of cleric build that much better in pve ?
also i can’t have proof from vids to you since i only met those ppl with this build in kr and i try to search but it seems they not upload vids anywhere
Uhh… This matters why? It’s also pretty much a given that any PvP build should build higher con than usual. You sacrifice a bit of STR for more CON in this case, but still, as I said, you can’t survive without STR. You will do really bad damage and DoT damage with One Inch Punch/Palm Strike if you do so.
Which is why CON and heavy defensive measures help you with this. Safety Zone, Revive, and even statues let you zone out those archers to prevent them from doing that to you, and even then it should be survivable with a decent amount of CON.
And sure, you’ve played kToS, then you should know exactly how PvP works and why Dievderbys and Priest routes are not bad builds to have when it comes to those modes. You get Revive and Resurrection with a Priest kit, zoning abilities to support Energy Blast with a Dievderbys kit, all of which are pretty decent strats for PvP while having pretty much optimal PvE potential.
Any Monk build can cast Energy Blast from afar. Diev just helps you a lot more to do so, which can be important depending on what kind of enemies you’re dealing with.
Also a smart opponent knows exactly that Monks prepare energy blast. You also can’t CC lock Swordsmen (Pain Barrier) and Cryomancers (Ice Shield) with Energy Blast unless you have a Plague Doctor supporting you against stun/freeze, and Sword3Cataphracts and CryoKinos are pretty much very popular PvP builds.
Thing is, not everyone who builds Monks revolve around PvP. Sure, Monks are not the best class for PvE and it would take a rework to make them meta, but as far as it goes, some people can enjoy PvE Monk if they really want to, despite the flaws.
And I tell you, you’ll be far better off with a CryoKino if you just want to PvP. Monks aren’t that much of a threat as you make it sound, anyone with high CON can survive Energy Blast, you can’t hit everyone with Energy Blast unless your opponents are dumb enough to stay together, Energy Blast is too linear and will leave you like a sitting duck while casting and so anyone you haven’t caught in it is free to interrupt you or deal lethal damage to you. Case in point: if PvP is what you focus on, then the Monk is possible one of the worst options to have. PD or some Wizard or Archer or even Swordsman build would be far, far better than the Monk will ever be.
You’re much into PvP, but you forget that we’re talking about Monk classes as a whole and how they fair in both PvE and PvP.
At the very least you could’ve asked them what kind of tactics they devised as a Sadhu-Monk when it came to PvP. All the scenarios you’ve relayed so far as a Sadhu-Monk look unreliable, and it’s something that would be easily exploited by your enemies in PvP.
I ll just talk about my preferences and experienced from ICBT 2 and now.
Cleric c1> Priest 3> Monk 1 (I reached only the first levels of monk). At first. Bless+ sacrament at max was really helpful, especially because until you reached Monk you will depending on autoatack the all time. With time bless started to be a bit annoying for the short duration, specially if you use monstrance which helps a bit more and don’t consume items. At the end I used one of both for the short duration. Mass heal is very useful in the mind time while heal recharge but It felt less effective for a party support than a heal circle 2. Revive and stone skin really useful party buff. My opinion? You will focus on the support in a party than DPS, specifically to maintain the shorter duration skill. You will have no problem to level on your own but It will be slow and a bit boring depending only on your autoatacks.
Cleric 2> Priest 2 > Monk 3 ( the one following now)
Priest for the resurrection and revive mainly. You can still take advantage of bless and sacrament without maximize them, just lvl 1 or 3 for the attributes. The rest on aspersio, some extra defense us always hellpfull and some in mass heal as a backup while heal recharge. Cleric for the heal, your party tends to move and not been all together, that’s difficults mass heal effectiveness. Safety zone could be a bit stationary but with 40 hits resist it s very useful, yes you can be knock back but still blocks the damage. Divine might and fade party use that always come helpful. In my opinion this build become more useful, still a bit boring and slow solo but very supportive for party.
Never tried cleric 2> diev 2
In my opinion from the 3 more popular builds:
Cleric 1 Priest 3: slow for solo going but you hardly died, you will remain mainly as full support in the back in a party. And I don’t think that change once you reach monk but always its hellpfull the extra damage from the buff.
Cleric 2 Priest 2: Still remain as a support but tanking at the same time, untill monk other classes will damge more than you.
Cleric 2 Diev 2: just for what I ve read, good for solo going but not as helpful in party as the two above.
You need to see how diev works in higher level map (storage, maven) especially when the event spawn vs the other 2 variant… Also in ET diev works wonder
