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Damage formula: crit attack is useless

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#1

Why doesn’t Crit Attack contribute to the ATK vs DEF multiplier?

I’m talking about this thing:
log10 ((attack / (defense + 1))^0.9
and as far as I know, when you crit, attack is just your normal physical attack, not even 1.5x crit-multiplied.

This makes Crit Attack a pretty useless stat, be it on gems or on hair accessories.

Normally, at 40% crit chance, yellow gems become as good as red gems in weapons (1 patk should be worth 3 crit atk at this crit %). But that’s only when the monster’s defense is quasi null. In reality, this rarely happens so crit attack is almost never worth it compared to raw physical attack.

Yellow gems and hat enchants (and DEX too) should give more Crit Attack.
Either that, or let Crit Attack also contribute to the damage vs armor bit of formula.

Tell me if I’m wrong somewhere in my calculations.

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Current Evasion viability?
#2

You’re right, both CATK and the Crit Modifier don’t contribute to the defence portion and are not used in the log calculation which causes significantly reduced damage and needless complexity.

In this case on a Crit with 1000 PATK damage and 5000 CATK on an enemy with 1000 DEF:

6500*log10((1000/(1000+1))^0.9+1) = 1955

Only 1955 total damage, with 5000 CATK (and the additional 500 damage from the Crit Modifier).

With 3295 PATK and no Crit:

3295*log10((3295/(1000+1))^0.9+1)=1955

Crit is already a fairly unrewarding investment, Crit Damage should contribute to the Defence and log portion of the formula for the simplicity and a much needed buff to it. This would probably require further rebalancing with specific values, as well as potential altering the Crit Modifier, but overall it’s needed.

2 Likes
#3

Please tell me what should I learn from this… it gave me headache

#4

Invest in physical attack and not in crit attack.

Also wtf that’s fairly easy to understand with only high school level math. How can you possibly want to min max any character without understanding even the game’s most basic attack formula?

#5

I just used stat reset 3 days ago and I regret it. I used to have 280 STR - 280 DEX on my build. Now I pumped up STR and let me tell you balanced DEX=STR is better than higher STR. My Crit chance is very high every attack is almost always yellow. My Double Slash before I changed to high STR was around 44k x2 on level 320 enemies that arent slash vulnerable. I dont have Glass Moles btw. But when I changed to my new build my crit only hits 37k-41k. Pumping STR is useless when you have high level transcended weapon and very high crit chance because your attacks are yellow anyway. There was also very little difference in the white normal attacks. In fact I never felt any changes with normal attacks at all. I regret it so much I want to go back to my old build. Also the attack speed is very slow. Most of my skills benefit from high attack speed. Hexen Dropper/Double Slash/Dust Devil

DEX>STR IMO because of transcend

I

Untitled.jpg1918×1082 1.05 MB

Now I have to farm 25m again for a fresh Stat Reset Potion.
WTS>41 Green Charog Horns
Server Varena

#6

Keep the money and wait for events.If we get Rank 9 during summer we’ll certainly get lots of resets.

#7

Here’s Why DEX>STR

I took off all my gear except 2 gladiator bands =300 STR
Result 1K phys damage

300 str.png494×1024 330 KB

But then look at my weapon

300 str 2.jpg1920×1080 1.02 MB

That’s like 1200 STR total converted to physical damage in the weapon alone and it’s still on stage 6.
The multiplier of DEX easily is the best option to go.

Truth is Player with no weapon it feels like STR>DEX becaue you barely crit anyway and your white attacks feel like heaven.

Geared players High crit chance DEX>STR

3 Likes
#8

There is no DEX multiplier. You will do more damage with STR, and over the course of a single rotation will mean 10000’s of damage, and over the course of a fight is 100000’s. The only damage advantage DEX will provide you is ATKSPD. Equipment will always be the main factor in damage, but STR further adds to the damage and does add up over a prolonged fight.

#9

Why are you talking about prolonged fights? People in PVP get 1 hit almost everytime. It’s all about who gets to hit first. (Except for Revenge Sevenfold and Crazy Rodeleros).

When I had 280 dex i could kill ET 5f Pyrogoe the very moment he comes out. Alone.

With my new build there is 1/4 HP remaining.

STR>DEX? Prolonged fights? What game are you playing?

#10

The upcoming 412m HP World Bosses that players should be preparing for. Either way you’re still doing less damage with DEX.

#11

Why would I deal less? my attackspeed makes up for everything. Block penetration is pretty high. When my rotations are in CD my normal attack is a beast. 14kcrit normal attacks 3 hits every 1.5 second?

I came from a high dex build changed to str and tell you that dex is better and high STR is wrong with every proof with screenshots and you still tell me otherwise? gtfo

#12

There is value to having DEX if your build utilises ATKSPD skills or has CD time, but balancing the stats or going DEX favouring will do less damage. You’d be doing less damage because not only do you have just 44% Crit Chance meaning the CATK you get from DEX is already worse than the PATK you get from STR, but it also isn’t used in the log function. You deal less raw damage.

Your proof…? You mean the readily available information we all have access to? Did you think you discovered the STR values? You’re not bringing anything new to this discussion. There is value in DEX, but balancing it, or favouring it will yield less overall damage. I’m challenging you because you don’t know what you’re talking about.

#13

Youre the one who doesnt know anything. You havent given anything to the table to disprove all that I have said above. All you said is I would deal less damage without backing it up. GTFO please

I played with my old build 280-280 3 days ago to my new 346-185 build and the 280-280 build was better. And I want to buy a Stat Reset Potion so badly because I want to go back to 280-280. But still strapped for cash. Im bashing threads like this because this is one of those threads that prompted me to make the reset AND NOW I REGRET LISTENING TO IDIOTS WHO CLAIM DEX IS USELESS

#14

Get out of this thread if all your arguments are “It feels like DEX is better” or “I literally crit almost every hit” or “Atk speed totally compensates for everything”.
Provide some math instead.

#15

That wasn’t so nice of a comment, how rude.

#16

Using Dethrone with 50% Attribute, 40% Crit Chance, 5000 PATK weapon, on a 1000 DEF enemy:

300 STR: 30.95*6900*log10((5750/(1000+1))^0.9+1) = 163399 Average Damage

150 STR + 150 DEX: 30.95*6750*log10((5375/(1000+1))^0.9+1) = 155310 Average Damage

300 DEX: 30.95*6600*log10((5000/(1000+1))^0.9+1) = 147155 Average Damage

Keep in mind that these circumstances will chance based on equipment, gems, accessories, ATKSPD, and much more. One of the most important factors that influences damage is Skill Factor. Consider a full rotation of high level attributed skills, STR will yield higher results unless you have an impossible 1500 CRATE or so. This information is all readily available, use it for your own circumstance.

My Char Info Without Invested Stats:

PATK: 4954
CATK: 353 (5 Ella)
444 CRATE with Finestra = 29%
450 Elemental Property Damage
19071% Total Rotational Skill Factor
60± Hits

367 Invested STR Total 420 STR:

+914 PATK
Gung Ho = (1.72*(420^0.8)+38)*1.5 = 381 PATK
Concentrate = (420+2*70+18.5)*1.5 = 867 Additional Damage

Damage:

6249 PATK
353 CATK
1317 Additional Damage

190.71*7257*log10((6249/(1000+1))^0.9+1)+(1317*60) = 1175400 Average Damage

With Serpentine and Spear Lunge:

2.0*190.71*7257*log10((6249/(1000+1))^0.9+1)+(1317*60) = 2271950 Average Damage

184 STR + 183 DEX Invested 237 STR 253 DEX Total:

+589 PATK
+1262 CATK
Gung Ho = (1.72*(237^0.8)+38)*1.5 = 261 PATK
Concentrate = (237+2*253+18.5)*1.5 = 1142 Additional Damage

Damage:

5804 PATK
1615 CATK
1592 Additional Damage

190.71*7114*log10((5804/(1000+1))^0.9+1)+(1592*60) = 1137700 Average Damage

With Spear Lunge and Serpentine:

2.0*190.71*7114*log10((5804/(1000+1))^0.9+1)+(1592*60) = 2179890 Average Damage

About 40000 Damage difference per rotation with up to 100000 with debuffs. STR is the clear winner, and that compounds quickly. In certain cases having Mid DEX investment can be beneficial depending on playstyle and exact build, but for most builds, in most cases, STR will just do more damage. Glass Moles will further increase the gap too. This is the specific case for my build and my gear though.

2 Likes
#17

(skillFactor%) * (Attack * (100% + (0 or 50% if crit)) + (0 or Critical Attack))

skillFactor% = Skill % * (100% + Group 1) * (100% + Group 2) * ~ * (100% + Type Bonus)

Crit attack is not that too bad but yeah don’t invest too much on crit attack from gems and headgears. Also monstrance + solmiki leather set.

#18

True. My apologies for the tone of the post.