Tree of Savior Forum

Controversial bait list

Class and Rank
#1

PvM
T1 - Krivis, Highlander, Hoplite, Linker, Druid, Alchemist*
T2 - Priest, Pyromancer, Barbarian, Sapper, Elementalist, Sadhu, Fletcher, Fencer, Schwarz Reiter
T3 - Cleric, Cryomancer, Peltasta, Ranger, Bokor, Wugushi, Cataphract, Sorceror, Corsair, Squire, Necromancer, Doppelsoedner
T4 - Swordsman, Archer, Psychokino, Dievdirbys, Thaumaturge, Monk, Rogue, Falconer, Oracle
T5 - Wizard, Quarrel Shooter, Hunter, Scout, Paladin, Rodelero, Pardoner, Chronomancer

PvP
TBroken - Psychokino
T1 - Cryomancer, Linker, Bokor, Cataphract, Fletcher, Squire, Chronomancer, Schwartz Reiter, Druid
T2 - Cleric, Wizard, Krivis, Quarrel Shooter, Scout, Wugushi, Sadhu, Elementalist, Corsair, Oracle
T3 - Swordsman, Archer, Peltasta, Hunter, Sapper, Hoplite, Dievdirbys, Rodelero, Thaumaturge, Monk, Rogue, Falconer
T4 - Priest, Highlander, Paladin, Pardoner Necromancer, Doppelsoedner, Fencer
T5 - Ranger, Pyromancer, Barbarian, Sorceror, Alchemist

*Special position of Alchemists owing to their unique capabilities

This list is wrong in many ways

  • Balance patches always come after some time
  • Tier lists are inherently wrong and stifling to the metagame
  • It naturally causes controversy and division as you will see in the posts down below

Nevertheless, have some fun being entertained!

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#2

Ranger is at least T2 PvM, Iā€™d recommend almost all archers to grab at least Ranger C1. Krivis needs to go down a tier or two, they are basically only useful every 30 secondsā€¦

#3

As a main psycho with some knowledge in sorcery, I feel insulted by my positioning of pvm xD

I can destroy any non ranged mob with 1 hand on my back :wink:

as long as I donā€™t get lag or some nasty delay/fps drop bs :expressionless:

#4

OMG!! PvM Wizard = T3 and Necro = T4 What a joke!!

#5

That looks about right for Bokors PvP spot, but if weā€™re using more than 1 circle, then it needs to be in at least T1.

Oh waitā€¦ har har.

#6

Man, this is weird.

Chronomancer is worthless right now. Two of their skills are broken and one of them outright crashes the game.

Dievdirby is also totally broken, their statue carving has a pathetically low chance of success.

Seeing thaumaturge below chrono is just strange. How is +700 magic damage worth less than ā€˜slow some guysā€™?

Swordsman is below wizard and archer for PvE? Really?

Howā€¦ how does Alchemist even contribute to PvE? Their one combat skill is practically unusable. Are they just up there for Item awakening? if so, why isnā€™t Pardoner in T1 as well?

Weird weird weird.

#7

Oh poor, poor Rodelero. Hereā€™s some nachos.

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#8

Hold on. Is this list for leveling or for end game? Pvm can be many different things. It looks to me like this list is tailored for end game. If so, you must also accommodate class circles because wiz1 is not the same as wiz3.

I doubt itā€™s for leveling because archer 1 and sword 1 only spends 30 minutes at most before class changing.

#9

Hi all, thanks so much for your enthusiastic responses, negative ones included because they are all valid and as Iā€™ve said, this is a controversial bait list that has many problems anyway

I think it would be nice to make some clarifications - firstly that the positions are relative. Meaning that even if you see something placed at T2, chances are, depending on the circumstances and the context, they might fit well at either T1 or T3 too.

Secondly, there are many factors that go into considering the appropriate position for each class. Because it is such a complex assessment, it is likely that based on your own experience of playing the class, you can argue that it is really bad or really good. This is also why the list in itself is problematic as it all really is arguable and subjective.

Thirdly, I agree in principle that a better list would assess all circles in order to give a more accurate overview. C1 cleric would be 5/5 while C2 and C3 would be 0~1/5 for instance. But having said that, it is not entirely practical given the huge number of classes though others are free to take up that challenge.

So for clarificationā€™s sake Iā€™ll go through some factors for consideration as well as explain some of the stances, not to mention address individual points and revise the list:

Assessment criteria

  1. Early game v End game - Assessment of their relative strengths at various parts of the games
  2. Synergy with other classes v Independent usefulness - Some classes are bad on their own but really good when paired with others, but on the other hand, it is important to consider the classesā€™ merits on its own as well
  3. Special classes that do special things - Some classes, like Alchemist or Cleric, can be very bad or very good depending on how you want to argue it. Cleric is special because it is a base class and its C1 skills are basically mandatory and good for endgame, but C2 and C3 are worth less. Alchemist can be T1 or T5 based on how you view its importance. Therefore, these classes would occupy a strange position on the PvM chart - either one that is too high or low (Alch), or one that is in between to take both points into account (Cleric). Also, certain more obscure classes like Necro, Thauma and Rodelero are very open to revision as more common knowledge and discussion about them arises
  4. Naturally, the normal factors you will take into account - utility, dps, importance in group play, popularity
  • Position of Ranger: Yes, I would support an increase in the position of Ranger as it is a PvM-oriented class, but it seems to run into many mana problems. May consider for revision.
  • Position of Krivis: No, Krivis dominate PvM and arguably PvP as well. Zaibas having a cooldown is not a good enough reason for going down a tier as they have many other skills that have good utility.
  • Position of Psychokino: Psycho is a weird thing. It absolutely destroys bosses when paired with Cryo, but it can be lackluster on its own in PvM due to cooldowns. Thatā€™s why one of the factors is ā€œSynergy with other classes v Independent usefulnessā€ - it has great synergy with certain classes but on its own leaves much to be desired, so Iā€™ve subjectively decided to place it in a lower position though not too low. Of course, it can arguably be T3 as well or higher with cryo.
  • Position of Wizard: Wizard is really bad for leveling, yet it occupies an average rank in the chart. I do agree that it is possible for it to be lowered further. As someone mentioned, I also take into account the end-game viability of the classes, so W3 is good in that respect, though an absolute pain to level. Depending on how you want to argue it, W3 should be T3 as it works well with Elementalist, or T5 as it is horrid on its own. May consider for revision.
  • Position of Necromancer: Feel free to recommend a spot for this as Iā€™m not too sure myself, but I donā€™t see anything particularly strong about that class compared to others. Will consider for revision.
  • Position of Bokor (PvP): Yeah itā€™s a strong class definitely.
  • Position of Chronomancer and Dievdirbys: I try not to take bugged skills into the assessment. Those classes are still generally not good in PvM, but not useless, so they occupy a below average spot.
  • Position of Thaumaturge: This can be revised upwards as their buff numbers are strong at early game, but maybe itā€™s just the general image of the class that seems negative. Will consider for revision.
  • Position of Swordsman: Now here is a class that I can clarify. Swordsman branches (R2-R6) are very good for PvM. Swordsman itself, and its circles, are not. That is why they are below Wizard and Archer. It isnā€™t very good on its own, and it isnā€™t very good with other classes either.
  • Position of Archer: Now this is tricky. Itā€™s a base class with good skills but just bad overall for PvM. Oblique is decent for early leveling (and situationally in late game), SS attribute is useful for later in the game. I agree that Archerā€™s position can be lowered. Will consider for revision.
  • Position of Alchemist: As Iā€™ve explained, Alchemist is a T1 or T5 class depending on how you look at it. As such, I donā€™t think it really matters as they occupy a unique position due to their role. Also, unlike pardoners, simony is not so useful except for Daino 15 scrolls.
  • Position of Rodelero: It seems like a PvP oriented class. But that being said, it is not known if it shines significantly in PvP. May consider for revision.

Thanks for your comments and criticisms

#10

I think thaumaturge gets a bad rap because its a support class that isnā€™t Linker.

Hum, I could be thaum and give my whole party +700ish damage, or I could be linker and give my party up to 10x damage while I kill all bosstraps and use one of the best best mob gathering skills in the game, while I make Frenzy a party buff and give everyone max stats.

Its a little out there.

#11

Exactly! I was thinking something like that too but didnā€™t articulate it.

Wizard support classes are so good that they make average classes look bad. The PvP list shows the disparity

#12

Youā€™re using too many criteria. If anything you should have a separate list for each criteria. Thereā€™s a reason why graphs donā€™t measure 5 variables with only the x and y axis.

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#13

About Thauma, yeah iā€™d really not put it that low and specially not below Psychokino and Chronomancer. Chronomancer is literally worthless, even if all the skills worked as intended.

Thaumaā€™s buffs however, are not just strong ā€œearly gameā€ - at least not for the game we have anyway. Itā€™s going strong in all the content we have access to atm (which i believe is what the list is trying to portray).

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