Pure RNG please. Current system creates a toxic community and is frustratin as ■■■■
Had to change the description to match the actual implementation of Top-down chance because I had it mixed up with an incorrect equation earlier.
It essentially becomes this kind of math problem:
Prove that
1/(K - kills) is less than or equal to (kills + 1)/K, where 0 <= kills < K and both kills and K are always integers.
1/(K - kills) <= (kills + 1)/K
1/(K - kills) <= kills/K + 1/K
1 <= (((K - kills)*kills)/K) + ((K - kills)/K)
1 <= ((K*kills)/K) + -(kills^2/K) + 1 + -kills/K
1 <= kills + -(kills^2/K) + 1 + -kills/K
0 <= kills + -(kills^2/K) + -kills/K
0 <= kills + -((kills(kills + 1))/K)
((kills(kills + 1))/K) <= kills
or
kills => ((kills(kills + 1))/K)
1 => (kills + 1)/K
Since kills < K, kills + 1 will not surpass K when kills is equal to K - 1. So, this equation is satisfied for the integer range [0, K-1]
Assuming a scenario where the K is 500 and a player reaches 499 kills
1/(500-499) <= (499+1)/500
1/1 <= 500/500
1 <= 1
Assuming a scenario where K is 500 and a player reaches 250 kills
1/(500-250) <= (250+1)/500
1/250 <= 251/500
2/500 <= 251/500 which is true
This math isn’t extremely necessary since one could come to this conclusion just by plugging in numbers, but its here to show how much of a difference there was between my prior description and the actual implementation.
I apologize for the previous mixup with the description. Just wanted to provide some math as to why the description needed to be changed. An incremental Top-down chance system would see drops much more often than our current exponential implementation.
But hope for a rate increase f they put full rng… If they leave the same rates and remove topdown, its roughly a 20% decrease in drop rates.
And since my faith is low, I don’t believe they will adjust rate if they remove topdown. Thus just decrease the droprate overall. Removing the frustrating mechanic of an assured drop mapwide.
Like I said before, I understand how we feel cheated if we are not the one getting the assured drop, but crap it’s much better to have possibly an assured drop than to always just have crap low RNG.
All implying they don’t touch the rates, which Ktos announcement did not mention.
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I voted for Pure RNG because that is my favorite system.
I think pure RNG works best for equippable items or items that you will use to enhance your character (like gems / cards).
Progressive RNG I think is an interesting system concept that I think works well for loot type items. For example, you find pieces of ruins or map fragments that you could sell for silver, and at 10 or 15 pieces you can combine them to make something that is either worth more than the sum of its parts in silver, or allows you to do something with it like how TOS has those “kill monsters near this area and charge it” sort of things.
Top-down chance system is a perfect replacement for pure RNG except for one issue I have with DPK. DPK is essentially a quest system that is developed as a separate system in the engine. There is no reason to segment a quest-like drop system into its own thing (pure DPK) when you could handle it exactly as it functions by having repeatable quests. It is a waste of both server resources to manage a separate system for this, as well as developer time creating and maintaining it.
Pure DPK system is as I mentioned in the previous system, a waste of time and resources. This could easily be replaced by repeatable quests and wouldn’t have any of the terrible design of shared DPK and wouldn’t have any drop rate bugs because it would be tracked using their already working quest system.
Thats just my take on it anyway. 
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Pure RNG for sure. What the hell they’ve tried to reinvent here, the wheel?
Somebody said that the drop rates on kToS are x2… I guess they did this to try to average out the drop rates to not be much different from the average chance of top-down chance.
Not sure though, just a guess.
Just pure RNG / because it was RNG so it was the easiest to implement.
Make the market flow itself.
RNG has so many more advantages than DPK or Top-Down. It accommodates different playstyles of farming, scales easily with content in all different kinds of situations, removes drop “stealing,” varies the drops themselves, it’s easier to understand, and it even works to allow Progressive RNG to coincide on a per item basis along with other varied ways to have items drop. I’m still in favour of RNG+DPK, with DPK being secondary and a fairly high to ensure drops at a semi-reasonable rate, but Pure RNG is still much better than the alternatives.
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map dpk with personal reset…
OK ready for some maths?
Say DPK is 1000 on an item:
Current system (hypergeometric probability)
Killing 1000 = guarantee
Killing 500 = 50% CUMULATIVE drop rate
New system (binomial probability) (DPK reduced to 500):
Killing 500 = 63% chance. You can work this out as 1-((1-(1/500))^500)
Killing 1000 = 86.5% chance to get the drop. You can work this out as 1-((1-(1/500))^1000)
At 500 kills, you will have more chance. At 1000 kills you will have less chance as it will never be 100% chance for you to get the drop.
The point at which these two coincide is 800DPK on the old one or 400DPK on the new one, with both being 80% CUMULATIVE chance.
TL;DR You kill 80% of the DPK, you are better off on the old system. If you get it before 80% you are better off on the new system. Most of the time you will be better off on the new system provided they cut DPK by half.
What we really need is for IMC to reconsider the big picture: drop systems should reward players for playing with other players. There should never be a reason to chase people out of your map or try to claim exclusive ownership of a channel, and partying should be preferable to soloing even if you’re the party’s top damage dealer by a mile.
The systems we’ve had so far failed because they create conflict between players.
Anything that counts kills towards a drop such as progressive percentages needs to be player-specific, not mapwide, so the rewards match the work put in instead of rewarding stealing. Drops should be biased in favor of parties (for example, by counting all party kills towards every member’s kill count) so it’s never advantageous to leave your party and compete solo against them. They could also have everyone in the party get a hunting grounds cube whenever one drops for the party. Maps could have gimmicks that provide bonuses for everyone, not just one guy, when a total number of kills is reached, so you’d want to have more people around.
This is not necessary, just confusing.
DPK was a unique figure of this game.
But IMC implemeted it very bad.
For me should be a RNG + DPK system and it could be shared in these conditions:
- instead of 20.000 DPK, should be more more more easily: max 500 (and 500 are still many).
- increase % drop, items can’t be 0.00000001% drop rate. We’re not in RO, and games can’t have a ridiculous % in 2017.
Let me do an example to you:
I quitted ToS and joined (again) BDO.
I went to farm some silvers, and in 1 hrs I’ve done a lot of silvers and droppped everything.
After dropping so many objects i decided to login and farm again.
This feeling was the same when IMC implemented HG. I was so happy to farm over there, every day I logged in to farm HG items, ToS was really funny for me.
Yeah I know, I just wanted to try to show that they are far different from one another which is why the edit for the explanation was necessary.
On another note, I’m curious how you came to the conclusion here
I’m not really well learned on probability so I’m kinda interested about this.
The problem effectively seems like 1-((1-(1/1000)) * (1-(1/999)) * … * (1-(1/500)))) which doesn’t seem easy to immediately calculate.
Edit: I guess it becomes 1 - ( (999! / 498!) / (1000! / 499!) )… still seems odd to calculate.
Edit 2: Oh actually, I see now. You can cancel most of the irrelevant terms and you get
1 - (499/1000) which is pretty much 50%
To be honest I’m more like the Top-Down RNG system IF its not Shared, simply because your drop can get stolen. Also, because of the high Number (1/Number - Kills) makes it even worse.
If they still keep the Top-Down RNG system like that, I rather choose the Pure RNG system where your luck is the main thing.
100% agreed. Sadly, people fail too hard to see how good DPK could be if they implemented it in a good way, and the problem comes on people thinking that just because someone says DPK it means kill high number or monsters or shared DPK.
Its seems like they are going full RNG anyways, wich its total cancer for me, since they dont want to reveal drop % for items so we can expect trash 0.01% drop rates on rare items.
Truth is RNG+DPK its the most balanced of all the things that anyone try to propose here, real problem is everyone its too salty and tired of the shared DPK that as soon as they see DPK they cant even think on a way of making it viable.
I like the current top down system to be honest. It guarantee drops, sooner or later those drops will come to you in your inventory or in the market. And Item price will be cheaper from time to time when a lot of people hunt it.
Totally agree.
Some ppl is rly convinced that this company, which never lost a chance to add “wasteyourlife” contents, will give us fair drop rates… it won’t go that way and we will witness the birth of RNG-HELL 
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I think that per-player topdown system would have been better (an rng with guaranteed drop after some kills). Shared drop per map (and all its channels) in bot-infested areas is insanity. And pure RNG is known for screwing with people.
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