Tree of Savior Forum

Chaplain Math - Weapons

Class and Rank Cleric
#1

Hi again,

let’s see how weapons influence our auto-attack damage.
This is a little bit hard one, if you want to compare correctly.

Let’s first do an easy comparison, where enemy defense doesn’t influence at all.

I chose following weapons to compare:

  • Catacombs Club
  • Lolopanther Club
  • Valia
  • Ignition
  • Maga Rod
  • Superior Corona Rod
  • Lolopanther Rod
  • Toy Hammer

Note:

  • Ignition burn effect isn’t considered
  • Toy Hammer explosion isn’t considered
  • Lolopanther Club and Valia special property dmg is listed extra

Now let’s get into the data.

4 Hits, lvl 0 Aspersion Attribute

diagram
weap_4_0.PNG830×520 7.66 KB

Upgrade LVL 0

  1. Lolopanther Club vs Leather
  2. Lolopanther Club
  3. Valia vs Devil
  4. Lolopanther Rod
  5. Catacombs Club
  6. Maga Rod
  7. Valia
  8. Ignition
  9. Superior Corona Rod
  10. Toy Hammer

Upgrade LVL 15

  1. Lolopanther Club vs Leather (-)
  2. Lolopanther Club (-)
  3. Lolopanther Rod (-)
  4. Valia vs Devil (-)
  5. Maga Rod (-)
  6. Catacombs Club (-)
  7. Superior Corona Rod (+1)
  8. Ignition (-1)
  9. Valia (-)
  10. Toy Hammer (-)

-> Superior Corona Rod overtakes Ignition by 2 dmg.

4 Hits, lvl 100 Aspersion Attribute

diagram
weap_4_100.PNG833×522 8.05 KB

Upgrade LVL 0

  1. Lolopanther Club vs Leather
  2. Lolopanther Club
  3. Valia vs Devil
  4. Lolopanther Rod
  5. Catacombs Club
  6. Maga Rod
  7. Valia
  8. Superior Corona Rod
  9. Ignition
  10. Toy Hammer

Upgrade LVL 15

  1. Lolopanther Club vs Leather (-)
  2. Lolopanther Club (-)
  3. Lolopanther Rod (+1)
  4. Valia vs Devil (-1)
  5. Maga Rod (+1)
  6. Catacombs Club (-1)
  7. Superior Corona Rod (+1)
  8. Ignition (+1)
  9. Valia (-2)
  10. Toy Hammer (-)

-> Rods increase MATK with each refinement, so a high Aspersion Attribute let’s them climb in the ladder.

5 Hits, lvl 0 Aspersion Attribute

diagram
weap_5_0.PNG833×523 7.77 KB
Catacombs Club and Maga Rod are on top of each other (if you're missing Cata)

Upgrade LVL 0

  1. Lolopanther Club vs Leather
  2. Lolopanther Club
  3. Valia vs Devil
  4. Lolopanther Rod
  5. Maga Rod
  6. Catacombs Club
  7. Valia
  8. Ignition
  9. Superior Corona Rod
  10. Toy Hammer

Upgrade LVL 15

same as above

-> Maga Rod overtakes Catacombs Club just slightly (3 dmg) compared to the 4 hit table.

5 Hits, lvl 100 Aspersion Attribute

diagram
weap_5_100.PNG832×524 19.7 KB

Upgrade LVL 0

  1. Lolopanther Club vs Leather
  2. Lolopanther Club
  3. Valia vs Devil
  4. Lolopanther Rod
  5. Catacombs Club
  6. Maga Rod
  7. Valia
  8. Ignition
  9. Superior Corona Rod
  10. Toy Hammer

Upgrade LVL 15

  1. Lolopanther Club vs Leather (-)
  2. Lolopanther Club (-)
  3. Lolopanther Rod (+1)
  4. Valia vs Devil (-1)
  5. Maga Rod (+1)
  6. Catacombs Club (-1)
  7. Superior Corona Rod (+2)
  8. Ignition (-)
  9. Valia (-2)
  10. Toy Hammer (-)

-> Similar effect to the 4hit-100% data. Rods are rising. Maga Rod and Catacombs Club switching places. Catacombs Club has that immense MATK without upgrades.

CONCLUSION:

  • Nothing gets near Lolopanther Club, especially against a Leather Armor target.
  • Valia is a really good weapon against Devil-Type monsters - gets surpassed just by Lolopanther Rod with high Attribute levels.

So, what’s the hard part I talked about in the beginning?
It’s when we start to account enemy defense.

There are three cases where defense applies or doesn’t:

  • The initial physical hit gets reduced by DEF
  • Aspersion magical hit gets reduced by MDEF - MDEF gets applied before the Attribute Bonus
    That means with 100% Attribute a 100 MDEF monster will reduce the dmg by 200!
  • Additional Attacks (Sacrament, Last Rites, Cafrisun) are not affected by defense

NOTE: Property resistances / weaknesses apply everywhere

So we have Clubs with more physically mitigable damage as Rods the lower end faster and are unaffected by further defense.
Example:
A character lvl 250 with 10 Str has 260 physical attack
Catacombs Club (+0) has 228 initial hit + Sacrament / Last Rites (90) +260 = 578
Maga Rod has 0 initial hit + 68 + Sacrament / Last Rites (90) +260= 418
A enemy with 418 DEF will reduce the Maga initial hit to 1, the Cata hit to 160.
Now a enemy with more DEF will further decrease the Cata hit, but not the Maga hit. Upgrade lvls worsen this even more.

On the other hand, the graphs showed that Rods get better with Attribute lvl, but at the same time those upgrades get hit twice a hard by MDEF opposed to the physical Upgrades. A high MDEF enemy can even up that lead quite fast.

This makes a correct comparison really hard as we would have to compare special cases (character stats, equip, aspersion lvl, monster defense) to determine which weapon would be really the best for a specific situation.

Let’s say we have a enemy with more (m)defense than our initial hit and aspersion deal damage, we then have our additional hits, that are unaffected by that.

Let’s list the unaffected damage per weapon:

4 Hit / 5 Hit

  • Catacombs Club - 0 / 0
  • Ignition - 44 / 66
  • Lolopanther Club - 180 / 270
  • Lolopanther Club vs Leather - 544 / 816
  • Lolopanther Rod - 82 / 123
  • Maga Rod - 136 / 204
  • Superior Corona Rod - 0 / 0
  • Toy Hammer - 0 / 0
  • Valia - 100 / 150
  • Valia vs Devil - 248 / 372

I hope it’s still helpful somehow :slight_smile:

Let’s look at properties

**vs Dark**
weap_any_dark_any.PNG1416×1041 79.6 KB
**vs Poison**
weap_any_poison_any.PNG1414×1042 90 KB
**vs Lightning**
weap_any_lightning_any.PNG1415×1043 75 KB
**vs Dark Devil**
weap_devil_dark_any.PNG1415×1040 79.5 KB

If you want another weapon to be added, just post it.

To-Do List:

  • Add Daggers / Off-Hands
  • Add Armor

Changelog:
2016-06-20 - fixed property-diagrams
2016-06-14 - added relevant property-diagrams

7 Likes
Is sacrament as bad as people make it sound?
#2

NASA called, they want their mathematician back.

10 Likes
#3

Wow… Truly amazing work! Really making me rethink getting a Cata Club

#4

just noticed that the 5 Hits, lvl 100 Aspersion Attribute graph was showing the one with lvl 0 attribute.
corrected it

#5

Did you consider daggers too? Karacha dagger has physical attack power and nice elemental damage and the matk from a main weapon still counts for your attacks…and as I know daggers are a bit faster ( would be good to know how much…:confused: )

Lolopanther dagger also seems nice…but doesn’t have too much elemental damage what is a big downside…on the other hand…maybe against leather armor…X)…

#6

as you can combine a dagger with any of the mainhand weapons, it’s independent as the stats are the same for both weapons.
We could compare off hand weapons with each other.

Daggers are another damage type (pierce) and could in combination with rods add even more physical attack. That’s something I didn’t think of.

I’ll check on that tomorrow :slight_smile:

1 Like
#7

Yeah dagger with rods mean if you attack with dagger both the magical upgrades of the rod and physical upgrades of the daggers should affect your damage.

I also think if you would equip Lolopanther Dagger and Lolopanther Club…(maybe it would be even worth it against leather armor if both extra damages count against leather)…then I think attacking with dagger would give you more damage because of the extra attack speed at the end.

#8

Pretty much how I surmized it, but with a lot more raw data to back it up.

That said, I do think its worth considering elemental properties and toy hammers proc. Aspersion being holy, and maga/valias damage being earth/holy can add a significant amount of damage in favor of these weapons, and rods; depending on the enemy you are fighting.

On the other end of the spectrum, using a weapon type a monster is weak against gives a large bonus to the main hit, and thus physical weapons like maces.

Daggers have a faster attack animation before hitting, but a longer delay afterwards. Overall I dont think the difference matters, unless you use a dagger on your first hit. In which case its worth noting that daggers have both a shorter range and reach.

#9

I see. I will still want to try it myself but I don’t have any daggers yet. X) I thought it is faster in betas…but maybe I rly didn’t pay attention to the delay…

#10

umh… toy hammer effect was not included. im just curious and bad at maths.
should i consider sell the toy hammer and get another weapon?

#11

If I had a toy hammer i’d wait maybe 1 more week then sell it because of the possible upcoming kToS nerf to iToS

#12

Sorry for burst your bubble but autoatacks become a filler later on, you will just use them for keep the dps up when your big moves are on cd and for farm trash stuff that isnt worth a cast.

Cant talk about lolopanter because dont have one but tryed all the other weapons, catacombs,maga rod, superior corona, toy hammer, ignition and venom/karacha.

-toy hammer falls off rlly hard because the same reason that just sayd.

-ignition is buggy and even if scaled on int the dot isnt worth it. (doesnt work on bosses and buffs dont affect it)

-cata club is a bad weapon, 303 matack is nothing at endgame and you cannot enhance it.

-superior corona is alrigth, but is white, just have raw m.atack and cost the same to enhance than a orange weapon.

-Maga rod is just the winner in all forms, at +5 already outdps cata club and if you will overenhance a weapon rather this one whit extra stats than a superior corona.

-Venom isnt worth the price at all, the dot has the same problem than ignition one, and that negative bonus on plate targets will drive you nuts! only reason for wear this is the 14con, karacha has better dps than this.

I guess at this point everyone noticed that hiting whit the dagger bears more dps.

#13

Well, there are classes that don’t have many big moves. My chaplain doesn’t have anything besides cure :slight_smile:
There is no bubble to burst. I just liked to calculate things and share them. I don’t advice anyone to do anything :wink:

I added some diagrams with properties.

1 Like
#14

Gonna bookmark this again :sparkles:

#15

Dont you have incineration or canibalice? cle3>pri3>chap? wut.

Just saying that you should not build your character around chaplain because you will regret. if you went kivris,pd or druid focus on boost these and use aspergillum as a sidekick.

if u went cleric2 forget about dps because ur not doing it, get good at support and boost it, aspergillum will simply be a self defense tool for when a mob gets in love whit ur azz.

Btw you should make the mats whit lvl3 blessing and lvl 5 sacrament, because maxing mass heal and revive dont let you so much leftover points.

Im just adding experience to the maths, so numbers dont blind you. nc post.

#16

You won’t believe it, but some people play games the way they want just to have fun and experience it themself.

I’m a INT-build Cleric C1 -> Priest C3 -> Chaplain -> Oracle C2
So far I’m mostly playing solo outside of dungeons and I’m ok with that. It doesn’t matter to me that my character isn’t build meta-efficient in any way.

Buffs are irrelevant here. I’m only calculating the dmg gain from weapons.
There’s another thread for buffs.

3 Likes
#17

250+ is a nest of elitists, ur not steeping storage whiout a good build. And forget about ET for life.

No solo play from 220ish and up, mobs have 80k+ hp ur not killing anything be urself and much less whit this build.

Sorry but this game isnt casual, the good part is that you can reroll other char.

#18

In every MMORPG there is content for “Hardcore”-gamers. Raiding the hardest content in other games, ET here.

I’m sorry for playing solo above 220 :frowning:

Even if a game isn’t casual, what makes you to decide the goals others might have in a game?

The times I wanted to be the very best in a game are gone. I’m enjoying my little play time like I want.

To get to the buffs again - in no calculation I included buffs, equip, aspersion level and monster defense. Those are too many variables to put them together easily.

6 Likes
#19

Look mate, is not about be the best, is about that you need a party for lvlup at evacuation 230+ and ppl prefer a crono/linker or a ele3 in your spot. when they hover ur name and see the oracle/chap next button clicked is “kick from pt”.

If you think thats bad, on 252+ storage theyr double elitist than that, and belive me that ur not lvling up whiout grind.

So find friends that carry you or be lvl 230 forever, just a friendly tip.

#20

Sounds like you’re being the elitist yourself.

He clearly doesn’t care about min-max builds and this isn’t a topic discussing viable 220+ builds or not. It’s simple math for weapons.

3 Likes