Tree of Savior Forum

Cartar Stroke + Math

Class and Rank Swordsman
#1

So…

Some people hate this skill, some people love it but I wanted to actually do some real testing and dig a bit deeper into it.

How much damage does it actually do? Is it worth picking or maxing? Those are some of the biggest questions people are asking so I’ll try to answer them.

Cartar Stroke hits 4 times with an overheat of 2. This means the skill hits a total amount of 8 times with a 21 sec cooldown when factoring in overheat. It scales more with your P.ATK than Skill Lv.

Catar Stroke:
Overheats: 2
Amount of hits: 4
Cooldown: 21 secs.

I will be comparing Lv.1, Lv.5, Lv.10 and Lv.15 Cartar Stroke.

Lv.1 Cartar Stroke
Cast Time: 0.5 secs.
(P.ATK + 160) * 4

Lv.5 Catar Stroke
Cast Time: 2.5 secs.
(P.ATK + 385) * 4

Lv.10 Cartar Stroke
Cast Time: 5 secs.
P.ATK + 666 * 4

Lv.15 Cartar Stroke
Cast Time: 7.5 secs.
(P.ATK + 947) * 4

Cartar Stroke takes longer to charge as you increase the level. Now here’s the problem… investing +1 skill point into Cartar Stroke only boosts the damage by +56 per level for every 0.5 secs.

What that means is, even if you maxed out Cartar Stroke to Lv.15 and you released your Cartar Stroke at Lv.1 charge, you will deal level 1 charge damage. The damage increase factors into time charged and not skill point invested.

Now… let’s get to the bottom of this.

The character model swings auto-attacks about every 26 frames.

Roughly averaging about 2 swings per second.

So if you calculate that into the amount of time you spend charging, you miss out on some AA’s (auto attacking).

Lv.1 Cartar Stroke
Cast Time: 0.5 secs.
Missed AA’s: 1

Lv.5 Catar Stroke
Cast Time: 2.5 secs.
Missed AA’s: 5

Lv.10 Cartar Stroke
Cast Time: 5 secs.
Missed AA’s: 10

Lv.15 Cartar Stroke
Cast Time: 7.5 secs.
Missed AA’s: 15

Why does this matter? Hmm… let’s see because:

Let’s say you have an average damage of about 500 P.ATK

With Lv.1 Cartar Stroke:

(500 + 160) * 4 = 2640 damage total

This deals 2640 within about 1-2 seconds give or take when the animation finishes.

With Lv.15 Cartar Stroke:

(500 + 947) * 4 = 5788 damage total

Now this may seem higher, but why don’t we factor in the amount of times the player was NOT auto-attacking? It has a cast time of 7.5 seconds. That’s 15 hits missed out on which is P.ATK * 15, in this case 500 * 15 = 7500 damage total that was wasted. This difference is even more when factoring in attack speed buffs.

Compare that to someone who used Lv.1 Cartar Stroke. 2640 + 7500 (15 AA hits) = 10,140 DPS
Lv.15 Cartar Stroke would only see 5788 + 0 (0 AA hits) = 5788 DPS
That’s a 4352 damage difference.

In the end, as your base P.ATK increases it becomes worse for you to charge Cartar Stroke.

For bossing, don’t charge your Cartar Stroke. It’s a waste of DPS. You should be releasing Cartar Stroke ASAP. There are some cases where you would want to hold Cartar Stroke and charge it as you wait for mob positioning but that’s about it. This may also be an exception vs plate type bosses but this needs more testing.

Honestly, to fix this skill and it’s utterly useless charge system, I would give the skill a flat charge time. This would make it actually scale better.

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#2

You miss one thing in the calculation with for now doesnt matter so much.
The thing I am talking about is defense of enemy.
If enemy has 500 defense then your :

lvl 1 deal 2640 -500 = 2140 damage
lvl 15 deal 5788 - 500 = 5288 damage

Overally if we had mobs that have really high defense, around 2000, then lvl 15 vs lvl 1 would deal few times more damage.

Personaly I think the charge time increasing per level should be removed and they should leave the skill at 1 sec charge time or so at all levels.

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#3

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#4

On my Highlander i have Cartar Stroke 10 right now and i feel that it deals way, way more damage (about 40~50% of quest bosses hp) than the auto attacks i could’ve done in the same amount of time (aka pathetic damage), to a point where i sometimes believe that it ignores enemies physical def (probably not true) because it’s such a huge burst damage compared to auto attacks in the same time.
While your calculations may be right, i think when monsters physical defense comes into play.you calculations might not be as accurate. I think essentially you calculated with monsters having 0 physical defense.

I think high level cartar stroke is more worth for high dex builds, since they rely more on skill damage than damage from str (and thus also less on auto attacks).

It’s because you can’t read.

#5

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#6

if skill does 4 hits that means that one skill usage will roughly do (P.ATK + skill damage)*4. That is why multihit skills scale better than single hits.
in your example of P.ATK = 500 lv1 Cartar Stroke will do (500 + 160)*4 = 3040 damage. Also note that Cartar Stroke is an AoE skill and capable of hitting multiple enemies plus has an added effect of doing additional collision damage…

All your math goes down the drain.

All Cartar Stroke needs is an attribute similar to archer’s multishot to halve its charge time (at circle 2 of highlander). Or make it a static charge of 3 sec (like Energy Bolt that has 2 sec), then at lv5 of skill it’ll charge levels every 0.6 sec, at Lv15 - 0.2sec charge for every skill level.

#7

Nice post :smiley: I was thinking about this today because I was wrecking mobs with an uncharged cartar stroke. I’ve never been able to figure out why cartar stroke seems to do way more at certain times than others.

Yeah, I always used to feel it penetrated def as well… sometimes you’re doing hardly anything and somehow cartar stroke just takes a chunk of that enemy’s HP.

#8

All the math goes down the drain anyways once you realize that defense is a thing. Cartar Stroke could use some love, yes, but this is a dumb thread filled with biased math.

#9

maybe his partner is full spr cleric with maxed out deprotect zone (or at least lvl 3) or he takes his time to inflict “Armor Broken” during that deprotect zone…

#10

EDIT: I retract what I said, since you just explained something to me nicely :yum:

#11

That’s because defense is a flat reduction.

Let’s say you have 300 attack and a skill does 1000 damage. Against a mob with 0 defense and 800 hp, it would take 4 autoattacks or 1 skill attack to kill. That’s fair. Against a mob with 200 defense and 800hp, however, it would take 8 auotattacks to kill and still just one skill attack.

That’s a pretty big difference at this point. This matters a lot at higher levels.

Maybe, but I somehow doubt it. Even if that were the case, it should be mentioned in the post to not mislead other players with bad information.

#12

The way defense works in this game is silly. Against powerful attacks it really doesn’t do much. Against a bunch of small hits, though, it is quite potent. I’m sure that’s how the developers intended for it to be, but I’m not a fan.

#13

lets take a 2-3mm sheet of metal: against assault rifle or explosives it doesnt do much, but against pea shooter its quite potent.

Realism!

#14

That’s fair enough I guess.

#15

Yes, good job. I address that here:

Apparently, you can’t math. 500+160 * 4 =/= 3040 damage. You did (500+260) * 4.

You should probably check your math first before you try to disprove and mock me lol. You must feel completely idiotic now.

And you are just as idiotic for agreeing with failed math. Learn to math guys, thanks.

#16

way to completely miss the point and idea. Numbers are irrelevant.

Are you so out of constrictive arguments that you had to resort to ad hominem?

1 Like
#17

4*P.ATK + 640, PATK is applied once for every hit.

#18

If you want some actual respectful responses, be respectful. You straight up came into the thread just trying to disprove my testing with absolutely 0 research on your part.

And bringing enemy defense in just complicates the math a bit more but doesn’t really change much. If you were considering armor types such as strike damage, the numbers would be a bit different as well. In the end, it doesn’t make much of a difference overall because we’re talking about P.ATK vs skill damage.

You guys are using retarded values like if you had only 300 P.ATK vs 500 defense armor types lol. Which is basically like pitting a swordsman with no weapon vs a Lv.280 boss. Well, sure in your instance a swordless swordsman would benefit more from charging Cartar Stroke. Maybe because his basic attacks would be hitting 1 damage at that point.

But as I stated and since you can’t read, Cartar Stroke is more P.ATK based than it is actual skill level based. +1 skill point increases your damage by +56.

If you have a Lolopanther 2H sword, you’d be sitting around 1k of P.ATK even with absolutely no STR invested. At that point, there is really no reason you would be charging Cartar Stroke either way.

I could go on and on and calculate Deeds of Valor, Frenzy, Warcry and any other attack buff that would increase your P.ATK even more.

Right. I assumed people would figure it out by now that Cartar Stroke does 4 hits.

500 + 160 * 4 is the same as 2000 + 640.

This is true. It was stated by someone a while ago that the knock back (which is 50% of your P.ATK) ignores armor. This only applies when you have knock back on.

#19

There’s nothing implying in that equation that 500 is also being multiplied by 4. That’s why I commented, for you to fix that… and no, 500 +160*4 is not the same as 2000+ 640. (500+160)*4 is the same as 2000 + 640.

#20

Oh I see. You’re talking about order of operations. I was just using a calculator that automatically factors that in.