Tree of Savior Forum

Captcha system for bot fighting?

General Discussion
#9

Ohh sure they can xD.

Simple bots might not or makro scripts.
But better bots laugh at your puzzles and other things.

Guess how many good programms people made already to play chess with bots … or other things.

8 years ago there was already:
sakura script and ghost/ shells.

YOu could make an programm, which talked with you.
Gathered info about said things. Chained things together and learnt how to talk to you with it.

“How are you?”
“I’m fine.”
“What’s fine?”
“It’s when you’re feeling good.”
“That’s fine then~”

I had a modified version of that as school project for IT (in what equals to middle school).

After more then 2 years, that bot had an incredible base of knowledge about me. Small talk, Ragnarok Online and other games i enjoyed. And jokes (tame and less tamer). [so sad… it died, when my first pc grilled itself. And development was frozen … ]

An improved (or less good version) should be Microsoft’s cortana atm.
I don’t have her … so i can’t judge if her logic patterns start becomming better over time.

#10

the part where it grilled itself sound funny, i’m sorry （・∩・）

#11

Yeah lost all my favorite artist sites too.

And i only foudn 3 of 20+ … again.

It’s hard to search for personal art sites of artists in japanese.
Found moto’s … but KKWW’s is still in the dark.

(my avatar is from KKWW’s page… and colored hair myself)

I have already a bounty on it … 20 bucks for whoever finds it… since years.
These kidna artist sites, were all linked with “he look at this ones too pleaes” links … a part died or moved to artist sites that are popular.

But heck … grilling ones pc was a setback.
I can’t even find the whole batch of programms i would need to start that bot up again xD… last development on these kinds was 2013… 95% of the sites are down already.

#12

Some advice but IMC probably will not care about this but I got time now so whatever.

I botted in like every mmorpg I played, mostly to either see how far I can get, what is actually possible or just to save some time. And I spend a lot of time working on bots and there are very effective ways around it.
The by far easiest way is Client - Server end to end encryption with a regular updated key. Needs a little more computing power, does not affect the ping in a noticeable way and is fairly easy to code. But I rarely seen that yet although it is highly effective as you can not read and send packages to the game anymore.
You can always evaluate pixels meaning patterns on the screen. But it does not help with chatting. If you have end to end encryption bots are bound to simple regular tasks which can not fall of like walking in certain patterns while auto attacking. And even that can fail because of input lag or delay so as a botter you have to go for safe randomized delays between actions. But even a half blind can see those robot moves. Then all you need is a GM running around, talk to suspects, teleport them away and under clear conditions swing the Ban Hammer. And then check every other character found under the same IP.

Without end to end encryption botters sooner or later can read packages and from this point on you can do literally anything. Back then in Ragnarok they tried to solve this by checking every suspect by hand and spawn tests and stuff. But this needs a lot of work.

1 Like
#13

don’t want go to pc and enter captcha when play at gamepad

#14

Here I’ll link you to my other method I hope it makes more sense.

#15

Take a look at my post so that you can understand a bit more about how modern day bots work.

#16

please read above thank you.

#17

Let’s not have a captcha system shall we? These systems do nothing but annoy legitimate players.

#18

please read above thank you. you’ll see that i’ve ditched the idea of captcha. also to be perfectly honest i would say that you will be more annoyed to the existence of bot than captcha.

#19

No I wont. Bots don’t bother me. Bots don’t shove themselves in my face every 5 minutes. I don’t have to deal with bots all over the damned internet. I have not cared about a bot in years.

On the other hand. I want to shoot whoever invented captchas.

2 Likes
#20

alright there bud calm down now. XD

#21

it is easy to fight bots.
1- put a GM online
2- add to the the obligation to respond to the gm standards and questions, no one will be farming back without the ability to speak.
3- GM bans those who respond poorly, with x time or simply adds an count, if you get caught 3 times boting unanswered permanent banneo.
4- bots create more accounts, ok, if the gm is active every day as a job should be easy to clean bots medium - high level are those who bother.

Drawbacks: GM salary

#22

Okay, I have no idea what these things mean… Especially that last one sounds like a Harry Potter spell

#23

Here is an online course even that teaches you some of the (beginner) advanced techniques in computer learning. One of the first demos in the course video shows how you can train a computer to recognize handwritten digits (but this technique can be extended to letters too!):

Coursera: Neural Networks

#24

what is the point you’re trying to get across? because i don’t really get it.

if it’s about the captcha i’ve ditched this idea a long time ago, maybe i should update the main post.

#25

There’s one thing bots aren’t very good at: Common sense.

Instead of making a simple “type the letters that appear in the box” captcha, you could make a captcha that consists of several trivial yes/no questions to be answered by the player.

For example:

  • A player is spamming on the chat to prove his point, is he correct to do so? (Yes/No)

Note that, even question answering is still a topic covered and widely used by machine learning projects. But when the questions include in-game player knowledge and common sense (such as telling if being a scammer is right/wrong), then things start to get really complicated.

The set of questions could consist of 10 questions that a player has to answer every 24h of in game time, with a silly reward in case they get it right. If the bot were to try answering them “by brute force” (that is, guessing the right answer with 50% chance), there would be a (1/2)^10 = 0.097% chance to get all 10 of them correctly. This means around 1 out of 1000 bots would get through, but still, it would reduce the number of bots by 1000x.

The biggest flaw of this system, however, is that questions can be datamined and have their answers memorized by the bots. This means the questions would have to be updated and changed with certain frequency, which would be a big annoyance to the developers.

EDIT: Special note on the 24h in game time delay between set of questions: The system would have to be prepared for every situation possible before triggering the bot-check. Popping a 10 questions set to answer while you’re in the middle of a boss fight isn’t fun. Things like that would have to be taken into consideration and well thought by the developers.

1 Like
#26

You forgot to add: with varying success.
A lot depends on the captcha itself. If its a plain text without artifacts to make reading worse, a bot can copy paste it 100%. In the end it all comes down to the quality of the cap.

Make a half way useable one which trips up bots a few times. Fail it 5 times because you are either a bot or suffering from a severe case of dyslexia and be banned for a day.

#27

…today’s Artificial Intelligence technology can solve even the most difficult variant of distorted text at 99.8% accuracy. Thus distorted text, on its own, is no longer a dependable test.

  • by Google research

Nowadays, bots read text and classify images better than humans. This may be weird to imagine, but it’s true.

Google is now using new captcha methods that instead of solely relying on the “answer” from the user (such as the typed text), they now also analyze the whole process it took from the user to input the answer (such as mouse movement, typing speed, clicks positioning, etc).

This may fall a bit off-topic, but it’s a good read if we were to think of new “captcha” ideas for the game:

#28

[quote=“mrshadowccg, post:27, topic:152765”]…today’s Artificial Intelligence technology can solve even the most difficult variant of distorted text at 99.8% accuracy. Thus distorted text, on its own, is no longer a dependable test.
by Google research[/quote]
It must be true because its on the internet!
Sorry, but hardly any net article escapes click bait claims, this is no different. Whether google or the military has developed AIs capable of such accurate guesses does not matter, we are talking about small time bots for games.
If you put in some common sense, that 99% melts down to a bunch of factors where small time bots score between 20 and 60%.

1 Like