uhmm i dont know with others, but, im jumping to dodge, not to cancel animation. And yes, just like the others said, even walking cancels animation.
What I’m saying is, having to cancel the animation shouldn’t be necessary. It’s bad design.
And whoever is talking about it taking “skill”, cancelling animation is learned in literally <2 minutes.
Calling that “skill” is just sad.
I think you want a change that improves the game. I don’t think nerfing bunny hop is the way to go. It’s interesting and fun in it’s own right but there just isn’t a benefit for staying on the ground. At least none that I know of. But that is probably what we want, isn’t it? A reason for a player to stay on the ground a trade off so we can still bunny hop evasively when we’ve got 5 multi-shot archer mobs looking at us. But we get some benefit from staying grounded when we’re not under a lot of pressure.
Well, they said jumping would drain stamina, but I’m not seeing it happen at a rate that would matter. If jumping meant losing about 0.5 stamina per jump or something, that’d be tradeoff enough. You can jump to evade, but you have to watch your stamina too. As it is now, stamina only matters for swordsmen anyway, since they burn it with dash.
You see in my eyes that’s a weak approach. You want good to come from not doing bunny hop. An incentive I think would be better.
A punishment like you have to pay silver to bunny hop cause you will need to support it with stam pills is not a fun way to deal with it. And you already have the mana and potion system setup like that. And then you have players consider whether it’s better to just eat damage and drink a health pot or dodge damage and use stam pills. And you’re creating a catch 22. That kind of a system just make everyone think… Meh…
It should always be rewarding for your players to dodge attacks and play well. So why not reward players for staying on the ground when it’s the correct time to stay on the ground. You have a chance to increase the skill ceiling on your game and that’s what you want especially when you’re game is made for this audience… The Ragnarok players aren’t kids anymore they’ve lived through a period of gaming when gaming was hard and Ragnarok was also a hard game in it’s own right on some classes. We want a high skill ceiling on the game to satisfy those that crave that kind of play. So kill two birds with one stone give advantages to staying on the ground but make them meaningful… Not I don’t have to spam stam pills.
As a Wizard, I really like it because you actually have to time when you attack after you jump to maximize your auto attack DPS. Stutter stepping is also fairly skill intensive. Wizard’s single target DPS is on the weaker side, so we kinda need some mobility to keep up with Archers and Swordsman when grinding in areas where mobs are more spread.
My approach might be weak, but you haven’t provided any concrete examples of how that incentive would look like yourself, that’s not how it works.
Something else I could think off would be attacks that hit you stronger if you try to evade them by jumping. For example some slash attack hitting you in the air would slap you out of the air and smack you against the wall, dealing additional fall damage vs. staying on the ground. This would encourage thinking about whether evade by moving, jumping, or opting out to eat an attack because, say, you’re hiding behind a Pavise.
@PiriPiri: but that’s exactly the problem - you have to jump or stutter step just to get on par with other classes. It makes the class harder for the sake of being harder. I’ve also been trying this yesterday, and I could jump through the whole dungeon without getting hit once. That just waters down the game immensely.
Coming from years of league, I don’t mind the jump / move cancel. It gives a little skill curve which all games need. And with mouse control, move canceling is the easiest thing on the planet and fun too.
How about just shortening the delay between character movement and attacks, it’d look a lot less silly.
if jumping cancels the animation between attacks, thus allowing players to cast the spells with less time in between, then thats a pretty dumb feature. everyone will be hopping around every map looking retarded all to increase their damage per second.
It’s not just jump, you can (with mouse controls) target a mob, then click and hold where you want to move and hold down “z” or your auto attack. This auto cancels attacks
Fine… Fixing. First off why do people jump attack? Cause it feels better then the ground attacks. You get freedom of movement and you’re hitting more buttons your timing the attack it’s all around more interesting and fun for the player. It is a little derpy to have your character jump up and down all day. Is it a problem? Probably not in itself but it makes you wonder if you could improve the ground attacks so players will actually want to use them.
So what would I do? First and foremost make it so stutter step cancels are better from the ground. I’d honestly straight up remove the animation lock for ground auto-attacks for Wizard at least if not Swordsmen and Cleric as well. Instead if a player moves when they’re mid swing they can cancel the attack before it goes off. Now there is a timing element to stutter step. And it also should feel better for the players and you can speed up boss tells since players can now react faster.
^ That alone would likely go to great lengths to limit bunny hop. I would test that and see how it feels for the different tiers of players see if the players that are weak on twitch skills think it feels awful or not. The best of us would only jump to dodge because you would increase your control on when you’re getting the invulnerability from the jump. Bottom line is though you should be less worried about derpyness in your game and more worried about whether it’s feels good to use the basic controls.
Blindly nerfing bunny hop would be hard on some of the classes–it wouldn’t bother archer or the melee classes all that much but it would be a very big deal for wizards and they’re already low on the totem pole early game… Especially with the way their shield spell scales and how reliant they are on dodging attacks and spamming auto attacks for damage early game.
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If I had to stand in place to use auto attack, I would probably do it significantly less because of how vulnerable it would make me. You are already put at risk for casting spells Like Fireball, Electrocute, Meteor, so on. Wizards already take a boat load of damage from ranged units, making them more vulnerable to melee will turn them into paper.
Removing jump would also make gathering units much more difficult. Mobs already react slow enough to aggro as is.
Melee classes need to be able to kite as well, and being able to jump into a hit to draw aggro is very helpful.
[quote=“Raspy, post:44, topic:23797”]
I’d honestly straight up remove the animation lock for ground auto-attacks for Wizard at least if not Swordsmen and Cleric as well.
[/quote]Funny, that’s pretty much what I’ve been asking for. Not having to cancel it manually = no frantic bunny hops all the time.
[quote=“PiriPiri, post:45, topic:23797”]
If I had to stand in place to use auto attack, I would probably do it significantly less because of how vulnerable it would make me.[/quote]I’m not saying you should stand still, I’m saying the delay shouldn’t be there in the first place. Hit and move by all means, but having to always cancel the animation manually, by either jumping or moving is just making it harder for the sake of being harder, as I said.
They made the animation while shooting and moving quite nicely for archer, if they add the same type of animation for wizard, it will work just as fine. I don’t get why wizards have to have this awfully slow animation in the first place.
That takes art resources to add though… I doubt you’re going to get your wish… There would have to be a whole new set of animations for 3 of the classes. If you want to see change here it’ill have to take minimal engineer or art time I think.
Yes, that’s true. I think they can squeeze in a few animations in there though. It shouldn’t be expensive compared to some other parts of the game that needs some major work (chat system, anyone?). At least I hope they won’t rush the game in an unfinished state.
I’m against with jumping to cancel animation, its just plain dumb. However, I don’t want jumping to be removed entirely from the game. If there are people like to jump and attack, let them but don’t cancel the animation. Since everyone wants to maximize DPS, everyone will end up jumping around and that’s so… dumb lol.
I’m not for or against this, but it honestly is tedious to have to jump cancel attack animations. Regardless of what you may think, there is no “skill” in pressing jump and attacking. As far as animation goes, Archers don’t have some special animation for doing their move-cancel. It simply stops the shooting animation halfway through and goes to the running animation. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9J3zoe1Lhc. This probably wasn’t even intended in design because it completely mitigates the use of one of their skills, Swift Step.
As for a “fix”? I dunno, probably just increase the animation speed of some classes attacks.
I didn’t notice archer gaining anything from cancelling to be honest. What I meant was their walking and shooting animation, whether using Swift Step or not. No other class has this.
Yes, please remove these silly cancel mechanic.
It make commitment cheap. It make mistakes more forgivable.
Don’t make this game’s combat cheap.
If cancel going to stay, put some negative to it, so player can actually weight the benefit vs risk.