Tree of Savior Forum

Can Magic Have Hit, Pierce, etc. types?

I noticed in some skill descriptions and in some videos, magic skills have these sort of typing, for example, fireball is labeled as a “Hit” type o.o, and so if they have these typings, would they be affected by anything that increases or decrease damage from certain types? For example, if you hit someone wearing Plate Armor with fireball, would they take 50% more damage?

No.

Longer answer, magic has its own set of defenses via elemental defenses. The only magic that doesn’t have any elemental defense is something like Energy Bolt with no element attached to it.

Basically, you’d be doing 100% damage to everything but Ghost which you do 150%. Then you take the elemental defense into account (not sure if it’s additive or multiplicative).

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Wouldnt that be only additive? Like, if you do 100% fire damage and the the monster is earth (or plant) base it take 200% more damage from fire element? (this is just an exemple not the actual thing i think).

ah I see thanks :smile:, so im guessing the skill Lethargy, which has an attribute that increases the damage taken from, “hit” type moves on affected target, won’t increase the damage of fireball?

Note that im not taking into consideration def mechanics of any kind here just to keep the thing simple, but lets say lethargy add a 40% increase damage to fireball so what i said earlier would be 200% + 40% (from lethargy) doing a total of 240% extra fire damage on a monster that is weak against fire. Well thats the rough idea of it, but like i said before, im not sure if its the game mechanic right now, and you can be sure there are more stuff into it like defence and elemental defence dodge block and what not into the calc.

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Offense/Defense Effects

Different weapons yield different attack types.
These attack types have advantage and disadvantages depending on the enemy’s defense mechanism.
http://treeofsaviorgame.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/offense-defense-chart.jpg
Orange text = Increase. Black text = Decrease
Four offense types (Vertical): Slashing, Stabbing, Striking and Magic

Four defense types (Horizontal): Cloth, Leather, Metal Plating and Fluid

Actually, you’d be wrong there. Some magic skills also have physical properties attached as well, namely some of Cryomancer’s spells.

Ice Bolt and Ice Pike both are [Magic] - [Ice] skills, but also [Pierce], and will do extra damage to enemies with Leather armor typing.

Similarly, Wugushi’s attacks are [Physical] - [Pierce], but also [Poison], and will do less against Poison and Earth-elemental enemies.

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I seem to be getting everything wrong these days lol. I need more sleep. But well then, this now confuses me to the formula to how the damage for ice skills are calculated since it’s magic but they also get piercing? So if you’re fighting someone with Leather, and is weak to ice, do you do 100% more damage or what?

Yes, exactly. You’ll do +50% damage with their Ice weakness, and +50% damage due to their Pierce weakness. Alternatively, if they’re weak to Ice but strong vs Pierce, it’ll be +50% damage and then -25% damage, which (assuming it works normally) should just be +25% damage overall.

When it comes to skills with both [Magic] and a physical property (i.e. Pierce), there’s no issue here unless their armor type is Ghost, because Magic vs. any armor type that isn’t Ghost is neutral.

Subsequently, dual-type skills vs Ghosts should both have bonus damage and reduced damage, essentially cancelling them out (even though it mentions ‘+50% Magic’ when attacking them, it won’t mention the -50% damage due to the physical property). If the Ghost armor-type enemy happens to be Fire elemental though, the +50% damage bonus due to Ice will be applied, but if they’re Ice-elemental, it will be -50% damage.

The best way to approach it is take the resistances one at a time, it should be simple in theory to see how they work. If they work normally, a +50% bonus and a -50% bonus should cancel each other out. But this is me assuming things here, I’m not sure myself how the damage calculation would truly work. But going by experience, it should be like this.

Also, treat all [Physical] skills which don’t have an element to be non-elemental. Enchant Fire and Sacrament cannot affect skills either.

Luckily, the Ice skills which have a physical property are in the minority. Ice Blast, Hail, Frost Cloud and Freezing Sphere have no physical properties. Only Ice Bolt and Ice Pike has Pierce-typing, and Snow Rolling has Strike-typing.

It’s like dual-typing with Pokémon, essentially. :smile:

EDIT: Check my second post to clear up some misunderstandings in my post.

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You still playing MIB i see lol. 36 hours/day will kill you.

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You seem to confuse some things at the end. [Pierce] is a property on its own and independent from the type of an attack - either magic or physical -, it is not a physical property. There is no info about typeless attacks so far.
So even if there is no [magic] or [physical] property in the description skills like Lethargy or Reflect Shield still deal damage of one of those types.
I don’t know why you mentioned Enchant Fire or Sacrament but their applicability to skills isn’t related to this matter.

True, I was using the term ‘physical properties’ like an umbrella term similar to ‘elements’, to classify the attack types (Slash, Pierce, Strike and Magic), but that’s technically incorrect (especially since Magic is listed). They’re classified as their own types seperate from [Physical].

In that respect, yes there are no typeless attacks due to the fact [Physical] and [Magic] are counted types as well.

The ‘Enchant Fire’ and ‘Sacrament’ was there to mention that they don’t add elemental properties to skills and attacks like people believe they do.

Wait so I can’t troll party members by making them heal enemies when they auto attack anymore? :frowning: THIS IS STUPID NOW! Enchant Fire lost it’s place in my heart.

edit: It got some of the place in my heart back :smiley:

Let me explain it a little more clearly.

Enchant Fire and Sacrament do not change your weapon hits to an elemental type, but adds a second hit to your attacks. The second hit is elemental, and this is what is added by the skills.

You’ll be doing two hits with the buff on; one which is of your weapon (i.e. if it’s a Sword, it’ll be doing [Physical] - [Slash] damage) and the second which is an elemental hit.

It doesn’t embue your normal weapon attack with an element.

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I see, so its like the buffs in Redstone Online, it add an extra hit counter (yellow numbers) are the elemental damage (theres fire from wiz and holy from priest).

Well, magic is listed with pierce and so on because of the armors not the other way around - because of the attacks - and physical might actually be missing. After all, it is unclear whether physical is always at least bound to your weapon type which again is bound to a property or whether some skills deal pure physical damage.

But this isn’t related to the property or type of the attack. It’s simply a limitation on auto attacks which is a different matter. By the way, did they change this because someone on the forum claimed Sacrament works with Heal?

Yeah, it’s unclear about the Physical type. There is one skill that I know of which is listed only as [Physical] which is Energy Blast, but even that skill does Holy Property damage, which isn’t stated.

And no, Sacrament and Enchant Fire do not have anything to do with the OP topic (property or attack types), but I was stating a point that many people misunderstand when it comes to these spells and typing, that they do not alter your weapon’s attack properties and instead add a secondary buff to them. That’s all.

Heal doesn’t work with Sacrament, I can even double check. You might be thinking of the combination of Heal and Blessing (which does work with skills), whereby placing 5 Heal tiles only counts as 1 Blessing charge use.

EDIT: Sacrament doesn’t affect Heal, can confirm.

Its just a guess of mine, but i think on later updates they will tag the magic skills with stabbing, striking, slash based on how the skill is, for example, ice pike would be tagged as pierce, snow rolling would be striking. But i think to do that kind of thing a huge magical damage balance would be required otherwise the magic-type builds would be OP with the extra damage.