comon, nobody know this? just say yes, no or maybe like can I use explosion skill with 2 handsword. dammit all the ninja must be hidden somewhere, I’m just gonna get 1 consair then go shinobi
Can you? Yea, Shinobi doesn’t require stances on their skills.
Does it mesh well? Not really.
Shinobi is more or less a piercing burst masterpiece, and none of Barb’s spells particularly work with your clones. They’ve only allowed Moulinet currently as a clone skill, but they will probably secretly add more in the future.
Things that can be currently copied:
Bash, Pommel Beat, Double Slash (SW)
Rim Blow, Umbo Blow (Pelt)
Moulinet (HL)
Synchro Thrusting (Hop)
Shield Bash (Rodel)
Cross guard is +100% damage for piercing types.
Goes really well with Kunai.
Being able to block really well from STR also helps you get more STR which also goes really well with Kunai.
Skull Swing also goes really with Kunai since it has low base damage.
Delays DoppelC3 by 1 rank, but R9 will probably be 2 of Luchador, Matador, Retiarii, and Centurion anyway.
Disagree, this was mostly the case before because we only had spear lunge + crossguard to buff clone damage. Since Shinobi was added not only were more skills made usable, Slithering got its +strike damage attribute, for a massive +200% strike from slithering + high kick. Best Shinobi build is actually shield shinobi now because of that, being able to copy pommel beat/rim blow/umbo blow/shield bash gives you a wider array of strike skills than pierce. Even moreso with Murmillo at R8.
Murmillo’s Helmet damage increases for pelt and rodelero skills won’t apply to clones since it’s a buff. shield shinobi seems to be a trap
If it does, instead of doing +2900% damage (for rim and umbo blow), it’ll do +900% … it still seems really good just less … ridiculous.
+200% Strike bonus can only be maintained for half the time clones are up (without pass) (high kick’s debuff is 5 seconds right?). The only pierce skills highlander shinobi needs (for pierce rotation) is thrust and kunai 
.
You must search the shadows… also known as the swordsman forum: https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/ninja-community-shinobi-class-build-etc-updated-as-of-05-16-2016/190089/1
If I remember correctly someone said something about 2h-sword auto attacks not working with bunshin no jutsu in that link.
Slithering and High Kick are both 10s.
Every Shinobi build is a trap, because you never know what skills they’ll be able to use next and force you to reroll. They might arbitrarily make clones cast Pouncing tomorrow, and suddenly everyone has to reroll a barbshinobi to be the best. But, ATM, +250% strike damage is the best you’ve got. Keep in mind that also applies to basic attacks with maces. The fact that your main character gets even bigger benefits at rank 8 is just icing on the cake, not the core of the build.
Let’s compare Highlander3 Barb1 Doppel2 Shinobi to Pelt1 Hop1 Rod3 Shinobi Murmillo when it comes to damage during clone burst
Let’s assume we have 2200 (way higher than murmillo will have, but whatever)patk, 700 crit attack vs an enemy with 900 def (even 275 bosses have over 700) and no armor type weakness
Highlander3 Barb1 Doppel2 Shinobi
Total: 733,603
Moulinet total damage: 202,743 (deeds 10, cleave)
Kunai total damage: 530,860 (deeds 10, cross guard) (2 overheats)
Pelt1 Hop1 Rod3 Shinobi Murmillo
Total: 580,290
all damage is with slithering and high kick debuffs
Umbo Blow and Rim Blow: 91,860 (all 4 overheats)
Shield Bash: 77,790 (2 overheats)
Shooting Star[New!]: 258,900 (2 overheats)
Synchro Thrusting: 65,440 (2 overheats)
Kunai: 86,300 (2 overheats)
Murmillo will get nice damage boosts to it’s own (not clone) damage on top of this, but it’s not going to compete with skyliner(da gawd) or cyclone.
Cyclone 10 w/ deeds of valor and cleave
341,847 (2 overheats)
Shooting Star 5 w/ slithering, high kick, and 5 clones
Shooting Star: 258,900 (2 overheats)
Skyliner 10 w/ deeds of valor, bleed, and cleave
96,030 (3 overheats)
Umbo blow and Rim blow w/ slithering, high kick, and 5 clones
91,860 (all 4 overheats)
kek
Well that’s…just not a thing…
That’s more than a level 330 doppel has with a +10 lolopanther 2h sword that has gone full STR (as in literally all points into STR) … which only helps deeds
I really don’t want to argue about 2-h sword damage vs sword and shield damage… (I do prefer a good 2hs build) we also seem to be using different formulas for damage calcs… but I do wanna ask a few things because I’m curious: Are you including cds? i.e. moulinet can only be used once per clone jutsu, kunai can be used 4 times. Also why haven’t you included kunai damage for murmillo shinobi? You are including both defence debuffs into your calculations right? Are you assuming moulinet will crit 60% of the time? (It does not). Why include deeds 10 but not murmillos debuff? Are you including murmillo helm buffs?
Thank for all the suggestions boys oh wait this is not even my thread any more.
Currently, with that build Sw1>H1>Barb3>Doppel2>Shinobi, the only skills your clones will be able to use are bash, thrust, crown and kunai. And like I mentioned earlier 2h sword auto attacks may not be cloned (neither can dagger attacks iirc).
Hop2-Corsair2-shinobi should be good?.
Oh no, a testing environment. math isn’t like… real in the physical world… dude…
We get it. You vape.
I see you’ve got no knowledge/understanding of the damage formula. Higher PATK is a bigger % benefit to low base damage skills w/ no armor ignore debuff because more PATK allows patk + skill atk to greater overtake enemy defense.
Yes, that’s very clearly stated.
This is all non-crit, which again also favors murmillo.
Nah, doesn’t effect clones so it’s not related to how well a build synergizes with shinobi
As a physicist I’ll have to disagree with the whole math thing not applying to the real world. Also what does vaping have to do with anything like this? Because I haven’t a clue what you mean, is there some cultural nonsense I’m missing here. “Oh no someone disagrees with me on the internet I must be rude to them to defend my stance”…
Rude again…seriously what is your problem man?
So adding a larger advantage to 2h sword build with numbers we currently cannot get isn’t relevant because? Deeds is the only one there with an exclusively p-atk multiplier.
Where do you mention Skull Swing or Shield Push?
Only asked since you mention crit attack.
So the comparison is a rank 7 pelt1>hop1>rod3>shinobi vs a rank 8 high3>barb1>doppel2>shinobi? OK 
If you’d like; since the thread starter obviously isn’t a fan of our discussion; wanna continue this as a private conversation?
Oh, so you finally get it. Also it’s only clone damage.
Also, pelt1 hop1 rod3 shinobi is R8.
2200 patk is obtainable now w/ item transcendance.
Try again? There’s only 7 ranks there.
I completely forgot about that, sorry :L .
It’s clearly stated in the math post
Murmillo. Since nothing there actually effects clone damage or works with clone 
take note: 2hSwords doesn’t work with shinobi clones, they do not give autoattacks.
But your disregard murmillo skills, and the fact that for murmillo buffs for umbo and rim blow your effectively adding 4 clones worth of damage to your own attacks (less so for your other attacks) as well as Headbutt’s attribute for extra strike damage. You use cyclone and skyliner in your examples which are not used by clones so why not include murmillos?
Also this is still a thing… 
Nope, not included in the totals.
Not even close to how it actually works.
autoattacking with 5 clones would still be worse than continuing to use skills that clones don’t copy anyway so this is completely irrelevant.