Link to list of “New” Shinobi clone skills please! for those of us out of the loop.
Scroll down to Shinobi portion
Nicely done, but the clones copy Sturtzhau, not Zucken. Heck, that’s even stronger. Also, the dmg attribute gives +50%, not 100%.
(edit: oops, I fucked up)
Self: 271% * 6 hits * 3.13 = 5,090% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%, Sturtzhau Atrib +50%]
Clones: 271% * 6 hits * 2.3 * 5 clones = 18,699% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%]
Total: (5,090 + 20,732)% * 2 overheats = 51,644%
Not only the multiplier is higher, but Sturtzhau also ignores a portion of the enemy’s def, so yeah, that’s TONS OF DAMAGE.
Good god! that’s a lot of good stuff, I think we’re gonna need some more reset events for our completely unrecognisable characters after this patch hits.
Really like the new list of Clone cast-able spells. Fun
It’s good we have more skills for clones, but let’s not forget the damage will decrease way too much. No more attributes, damage increase buffs or anything. It’ll be the raw damage of skill. Probably a good transweapon will make the difference, but not the same as before
Yes, you’re right. I confused the skills while doing the list.
I’m not including the default damage attribute into any calculation because they all give +50% at lv 100 and they all exist for every skill. I believe those attributes are also not group 2 modifiers so they should be applied after the whole skill damage thus not making any difference in terms of comparison.
Sturtzhau lv 5:
Self: 1626 * 2.66 = 4325% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%]
Clones: 1626 * 2.3 * 5 clones = 18699% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%]
Total: (4325 + 18699)% * 2 overheats = 46048%
It’s really hard comparing those builds with shinobi builds since we’re talking about completely different classes / skill trees. Sure Doppel-Shinobi will be amazing to deal burst dps and kill bosses and I’m sure a Wiz 3 -> Elem 3 -> Warlock 3 won’t be able to compete with that. However, the latter build excels at a different specialty, which is dealing AoE dps to normal mobs, and Doppel-Shino surely can’t compete with that.
I would have to be a hypocrite to tell you what’s the absolute best class in the whole game since the “best” is subjective and depends on what you’re trying to achieve.
To compare these classes, I would firstly have to set an objective of comparison (i.e. comparing Burst dps against bosses only). And even then, I would also have to set some parameters for the comparison (i.e. highest skill factor thrown under 10 seconds, or highest skill factor thrown under 20 seconds, etc). And that comparison would prove nothing more than what was specified under the parameters / objective.
I didn’t calculate anything, but I can intuitively tell you that:
-
If we’re talking about the best burst dps under 5 seconds, shinobi probably won’t win since it needs ~3 seconds to cast Bushin before anything. In this scenario, I would assume classes with one or two very strong skills to be better than Doppel-Shino. In this case I think Featherfoot 3 or Lancer 2 would be among the top burst dps.
-
If we’re talking about the best burst dps under 10 seconds, shinobi has a chance to be the best, but it would still depend if we’re taking out those 3 seconds for Bushin to cast and/or if we should also consider the few seconds it needs to position clones.
-
If we’re talking about the best burst dps under 20 seconds, I would say shinobi wins all other classes since it’ll be having so many copy-able skills to use that will be inflicting so much damage.
-
If we’re talking about the best sustained dps over the course of 60 seconds (also known at dpm), we would have to re-analayze everything and also consider skills cooldowns. Since clones now increase cooldown by 50% + 10 seconds, I’m sure skills like Sturtzhau will have a great burst dps but terrible sustained dpm.
And of course, all that considering the boss doesn’t die during the initial burst damage. I have a doppel 3 shinobi and whenever I play dg 300 I don’t even bother saving Bushin for the boss cause Zwercchau -> Zornhau -> Redel -> Skyliners are usually enough to obliterate it within 10 seconds.
Funny all the spear murms will now switch to 1-h sword since Pelt3/Rode 3 seems better.
And not to mention Swash 15 will be very usefull after the wiz rebalance.
You forget Fencer btw ^^
What I have in mind would be the total damage % in one single rotation or the sustain dps over 1 minute.
In the future it’s possible we get a lot of very sturdy boss like the one in raid.
the legend wbs were buffed on todays patch, 16k defenses and even more hp 
Crown is a strike skill and isn’t affected by any slash damage bonuses.
We shouldn’t also forget about the PA bonus given by the shield defense that is adding quite a lot of damages to the skills.
Doppel also gets cucked by plate since zwerchhau doesn’t work and you lose more than 1/3rd of the projected damage.
How about Fencer?
Dont forget about the 4 Overheated Kunai, with double crit rate, while it is affected by Epee Garde because it is pierce. And 3 Fencer main damaging skills that now copyable by bunshin.
True, listing and calculating so many skills is ought to have some errors.
I thought about this but I was considering 30% PA on shield would even out with the lack of extra PA from 2h sword (when comparing doppel-nobi with murmi-nobi). In the case of Shooting Star and Butterfly it might indeed be stronger than 2h sword, however (100% shield defense as PA is a lot).
Looks like shinobi builds won’t be overkill then :3
Well that’s what I calculated in my post above. For other classes, you can calculate them normally by summing up the skill factors / bonuses.
It’s hard for me to calculate exact skill factors for these classes because:
1 - wiz skills will change a lot, so I’m not sure how it’ll work
2 - I don’t have as much experience in wiz/archer as I do in swordman/cleric.
I assume, however, the strongest combos will be throwing out around 60000% skill factor through the whole rotation while shinobis can still burst out ~100k%.
Some random skill factors:
Elementalist 3
Dust Storm lv 5:
5976% over 5.4 seconds
Electrocute lv 15:
1272 * 2 * 4 = 10176% [Frozen +50%, Electrocute: Frozen +50%, 4 Overheats]
Meteor lv 5:
3516 * 5 * 2 = 35160% [Flame Ground 5 hits, 2 Overheats]
^Wrong
Hail lv 15:
Not sure how to calculate, I assume an icicle drops every 0.5 seconds?
1067 * (10/0.5) = 21340% over 10 seconds
Some people stated it still lasts 20 seconds, tho. Not sure if bug or intended.
*Notes: Very hard to hit all Hail hits. Can’t freeze bosses for Electrocute extra damage. Meteor requires Flame Ground which means pyro 1 in build.
Cannoneer 3
Sweeping Cannon lv 5:
3868 * 2.5 = 9670% [Bazooka +100%, Smoke Grenade +50%]
Cannon Blast lv 15:
1522 * 2.5 * 2 = 7610% [Bazooka +100%, Smoke Grenade +50%]
Cannon Shot lv 15:
2066 * 2.5 = 5165% [2/3 times 3 attribute, Bazooka +100%, Smoke Grenade +50%]
Cannon Barrage lv 10:
798 * 2.5 * 2 = 11970% [Bazooka +100%, Smoke Grenade +50%]
Not going to calculate everything cause there are too many variables (debuffs, buffs, etc) and things to take into consideration. I calculated these two classes core skills just to give an idea of how it compares to shinobi builds…
Fencer Shinobi is by far the strongest one.
As expected from the forums, the excalibait worked wonders 
1 Like
But but the bait resulted in great discussion
1 Like
Well, since we know smoke grenade will never work on boss we could see in that extreme example one of the biggest gap ever in damage. It’s a lot worse that what I anticipated.
go to boss area
block entrace with ice wall or merregina summon
kill boss with wizardry stuff
get the shiny gold (1)
Indeed, and with all these overheat there may have a little room for DWA in skill rotation.
1 Like