And I’m not talking about 15 stacks DoV Doppel. No, I’m not talking about 15 stacks DoV 10 stacks Frenzy Doppel. Hell, I’m not talking about 15 stacks DoV 10 stacks frenzy warcry full STR Doppel either. I’m talking about full STR Doppel with 15 stacks of DoV 10 stacks of frenzy warcry Doppel with Masinios Two-Handed Sword (That has stage 10 trans and +21 that is capable of white capping with every skill in his rotation), his six clones (which can copy Sturtzhau, Zwerchau and Mordschlag along with all pre-Doppel skills), capable of using Shinobi, Doppel, Highlander, Swordsman and Barbarian skills, equipped with his Chrono (capable of using pass) and a Cleric, because he’s a master of Highlander and Barbarian, a perfect Doppel (that can use all 5 stacks of Mordschlag in 2 seconds with his Korean ping), his supports that are buffing him and his six clones that are following him AFTER he has casted lv6 Bushin no Jutsu, used DoV, Gung Ho, Frenzy, Warcry, Pain Barrier and saviors potion that grants +500 physical attack and made his linker slave use spiritual chain, so he can use their buffs while they are under spiritual chain. I’m talking about all possible damage buffs six clones Doppel Highlander Barbarian Shinobi Swordsman with 4 green lines 2 damage lines 50+ all stats 300+ all damages 5 level 8 green gems +21 stage 10 Primus Raffye Two-Handed Sword, Solmiki accessories, full Primus basticle armors with 4 green lines 50+ stats and chrono and cleric pressing Pass and Divine Might equipping 124 physical attack 185 critical attack head accessories while casting all Doppel skills in 4 seconds, controlling all of his supports and clones, able to do his entire rotation twice while having the same clones up, wearing every squire buff and potion buff with Murmnobi’s helmet attribute implanted in him, so he can cast Doppel Highlander Barbarian Shinobi skills while being an expert in Murmillo Rodelero Peltasta Hoplite and Swordsman skills.
You cant dps if youre Dead 
The point of doppel is to be the best dps , two handed sword man with a skill that reduce defence to increase atk ? didn’t you guys realise that imc want doppel to be the best dps ? ofc it will be the best dps
good luck make that combo in itos servers
Weird because fencer shinobi seems like more dps
Look at them, they come to this place when they know they are not pure. Saviors use the cookies, but they are mere posers. Only I, Kim Hakkyu, know the true power of the cookies. I was cut in half, destroyed, but through it’s DPK, the cookies called to me. It brought me here and here I was reborn. We cannot blame these creatures, they are being led by a false prophet, an impostor who knows not the secrets of the cookies. Behold the saviors, come to scavenge and desecrate this sacred realm. My brothers, did I not tell of this day? Did I not prophesize this moment? Now, I will stop them. Now I am changed, reborn through the energy of the DPK. Forever bound to the fortune cookies. Let it be known, if the saviors want true salvation, they will lay down their arms, and wait for the baptism of my DPK. It is time. I will teach these trespassers the redemptive power of my DPK. They will learn it’s simple truth. The saviors are lost, and they will resist. But I, Kim Hakkyu, will cleanse this place of their impurity.
unzips x7 sturtzhau and zwerchhau
heh… easy boss kiddo…
While I’m not sure doppelnobi will be the best dps (there’s still fencernobi), it’s good to see Murmnobi knocked off from its perch. They’ve had it too good for too long.
its still a retarded shinobi variant, barely any difference
shinobi should be some flavor addition to your build, not literally mandatory in every swordsmanbuild ever
I’m curious if someone can compare the added skillfactor between the “strongest” classes.
For example some others classes that started at r7 and got circles 3 in rank 9 can only dish as much of 30% of doppels dps without the shinobi patch.
Got you fam.
“Self” means your factor while “Clones” means your clone damage. “Total” is the sum of both.
In brackets, debuffs/buffs/attributes also being taken into consideration.
Swordman 3
Double Slash lv 5:
- Self: (608 * 2.66) * 1.5 = 2425% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%, Critical]
- Clones: 608 * 2.3 * 5 = 6992% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, 5 Clones]
- Total: (2425 + 6992) * 3 = 28251% [3 Overheats]
Pommel Beat lv 10:
- Self: 545 * 1.33 = 724% [Deeds of Valor +33%]
- Clones: 545 * 5 = 2725% [5 Clones]
- Total: (724 + 2725) * 3 = 10347% [3 Overheats]
Highlander 2
Crown lv 10:
- Self: 543 * 2.66 = 1444% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%]
- Clones: 543 * 2.3 * 5 = 6244% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, 5 Clones]
- Total: (1444 + 6244) = 7688%
Moulinet lv 5:
- Self: (625 * 3.66) * 1.5 = 3430% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%, Crown +100%, Critical]
*Clones: 625 * 3.3 * 5 = 10312% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, Crown +100%, 5 Clones] - Total: (3430 + 10312) = 13742%
Barbarian 1
Cleave lv 5:
- Self [No Cleave debuff]: 266 * 2.13 = 566% [Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%]
- Self [With Cleave debuff]: 266 * 2.66 = 707% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%]
- Clones: 266 * 2.3 * 5 = 3059% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, 5 Clones]
- Total: 11157% [Calculated as below]
-
- 1st overheat: 566 + 3059 [Self, No Cleave Debuff + Clone, 1 Overheat]
-
- 2nd and 3rd: (707 + 3059) * 2 [Self, Cleave Debuff + Clone, 2 Overheats]
Barbarian 2
Cleave lv 10:
- Self [No Cleave debuff]: 326 * 2.13 = 694% [Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%]
- Self [With Cleave debuff]: 326 * 2.66 = 867% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%]
- Clones: 326 * 2.3 * 5 = 3749% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, 5 Clones]
- Total: 13675% [Calculated as below]
-
- 1st overheat: 694 + 3749 [Self, No Cleave Debuff + Clone, 1 Overheat]
-
- 2nd and 3rd: (867 + 3749) * 2 [Self, Cleave Debuff + Clone, 2 Overheats]
Seism lv 5:
- Self: (201 * 5) * 2.66 = 2673% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%, 5 Wild Natures]
- Clones: (201 * 3) * 2.3 * 5 = 6934% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, 5 Clones]
- Total: (2673 + 6934) * 2 = 19215% [2 Overheats]
Barbarian 3
Cleave lv 15:
- Self [No Cleave debuff]: 386 * 2.13 = 822% [Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%]
- Self [With Cleave debuff]: 386 * 2.66 = 1026% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%]
- Clones: 386 * 2.3 * 5 = 4439% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, 5 Clones]
- Total: 16191% [Calculated as below]
-
- 1st overheat: 822 + 4439 [Self, No Cleave Debuff + Clone, 1 Overheat]
-
- 2nd and 3rd: (1026 + 4439) * 2 [Self, Cleave Debuff + Clone, 2 Overheats]
Seism lv 10:
- Self: (256 * 5) * 2.66 = 3404% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%, 5 Wild Natures]
- Clones: (256 * 3) * 2.3 * 5 = 8832% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, 5 Clones]
- Total: (3404 + 8832) * 2 = 24472% [2 Overheats]
Doppel 3
Mordschlag lv 15:
- Self: 1212 * 1.33 = 1611% [DoV +33%]
- Clones: 1212 * 5 = 6060% [5 Clones]
- Total: (1611 + 6060) * 5 = 38355% [5 Overheats]
Zucken lv 10:
- Self: 1396 * 3.91 = 5458% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%, Shock +25%, Zucken Atrib +100%]
- Clones: 1396 * 2.55 * 5 = 17799% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, Shock +25%, 5 Clones]
- Total: (5458 + 17799) * 2 = 46514% [2 Overheats]
^wrong
Zwercchau lv 5:
- Self [No Zwercchau debuff]: 1428 * 1.83 = 2613% [Cleave +50%, DoV +33%]
- Clones: 1428 * 2.3 * 5 = 16422% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, 5 Clones]
- Total: 2613 + 16422 = 19035%
Peltasta 2
Umbo Blow lv 10:
- Self: 364 * 4 = 1565% [High Kick +50%, Cassis Crista +150%, Headbutt +30%, High Guard +100%]
- Clones: 364 * 1.8 * 5 = 3276% [High Kick +50%, Headbutt +30%, 5 Clones]
- Total: (1565+ 3276) * 2 = 9682%
Rim Blow lv 10:
- Self: 364 * 4 = 1565% [High Kick +50%, Cassis Crista +150%, Headbutt +30%, High Guard +100%]
- Clones: 364 * 1.8 * 5 = 3276% [High Kick +50%, Headbutt +30%, 5 Clones]
- Total: (1565+ 3276) * 2 = 9682%
Peltasta 3
Umbo Blow lv 15:
- Self: 431 * 4.3 = 1853% [High Kick +50%, Cassis Crista +150%, Headbutt +30%, High Guard +100%]
- Clones: 431 * 1.8 * 5 = 3879% [High Kick +50%, Headbutt +30%, 5 Clones]
- Total: (1853+ 3879) * 2 = 11464%
Rim Blow lv 15:
- Self: 431 * 4.3 = 1853% [High Kick +50%, Cassis Crista +150%, Headbutt +30%, High Guard +100%]
- Clones: 431 * 1.8 * 5 = 3879% [High Kick +50%, Headbutt +30%, 5 Clones]
- Total: (1853+ 3879) * 2 = 11464%
Butterfly lv 5:
- Self: 825 * 2.8 = 2310% [High Kick +50%, Headbutt +30%, Cassis Crista +100%]
- Clones: 825 * 1.8 * 5 = 7425% [High Kick +50%, Headbutt +30%, 5 Clones]
- Total: (2310+ 7425) * 2 = 19470%
Langort lv 5:
- Self: 624 * 1.5 = 936% [Spear Lunge +50%]
- Clones: 624 * 1.5 * 5 = 4680% [Spear Lunge +50%, 5 Clones]
- Total: 5616%
Rodelero 3
Targe Smash lv 15:
- Self: 608 * 3.3 = 2006% [High Kick +50%, Headbutt +30%, Cassis Crista +150%]
- Clones: 608 * 1.8 * 5 = 5472% [High Kick +50%, Headbutt +30%, 5 Clones]
- Total: (2006+ 5472) * 3 = 22434%
Shield bash lv 10:
- Self: 774 * 3.3 = 2554% [High Kick +50%, Headbutt +30%, Cassis Crista +150%]
- Clones: 774 * 1.8 * 5 = 6966% [High Kick +50%, Headbutt +30%, 5 Clones]
- Total: (2554+ 6966) * 2 = 19040%
Shooting Star lv 5:
- Self: 1224 * 2.8 = 3427% [High Kick +50%, Headbutt +30%, Cassis Crista +100%]
*Clones: 1224 * 1.8 * 5 = 11016% [High Kick +50%, Headbutt +30%, 5 Clones] - Total: (3427+ 11016) * 2 = 28886%
Hoplite 1
Synchro Thrust lv 5:
- Self: (402 * 1.5) * 4 = 2412% [Striking Attribute, Spear Lunge +50%, Counter +100%]
- Clones: 402 * 2.5 * 5 = 5025% [Spear Lunge +50%, Counter +100%]
- Total: (2412 + 5025) * 2 = 14874%
Hoplite 2
Synchro Thrust lv 10:
- Self: (493 * 1.5) * 4 = 2958% [Striking Attribute, Spear Lunge +50%, Counter +100%]
- Clones: 493 * 2.5 * 5 = 6162% [Spear Lunge +50%, Counter +100%]
- Total: (2958 + 6162) * 2 = 18241%
Now let’s try to compare some builds…
IMPORTANT: I’m not considering skills outside shinobi copy-able skills. I’m also not considering Shinobi skills comparison, though I should compare since a build can have Spear Lunge to boost Kunais damage while some other build won’t.
Swordman 3 -> Barbarian 2 -> Doppel 3 -> Shinobi:
Barbarian 2 seems like the most logical path since replacing Barb 2 for Highlander 2 will make your burst damage much weaker now. Cleave lv 10 hits harder than Crown and Seism lv 5 hits harder than Moulinet with clones up. You don’t have Crosscut to inflict bleeding (+30% dmg with Prison Cutter cards) or Skyliner for a nice skill spam, but Highlander 2 would also cut off your Cleave debuff.
The slash combo may be impractical to use during Zwercchau’s limited duration of 6.5 seconds, however, I kept calculating everything with the debuff for sake of simplicity.
Slash Combo: Clones -> Zwercchau (19035%) -> 1x Cleave (4443%) -> 2x Zucken (46514%) -> 2x Seism (19215%) -> 3x Double Slash (28251%) -> 2x Cleave (9232%).
Combo Skill Factor: 126690%
Strike Combo: Clones -> 5x Mordschlag (38355%) -> 2x Pommel beat (10347%)
Combo Skill Factor: 48705%
Swordman 1 -> Highlander 2 -> Barbarian 2 -> Doppel 3 -> Shinobi
The slash combo on this build is also quite long which means it probably won’t be able to be used within 6.5 seconds, but we’ll leave it that way anyways. This build still competes with the build written above since it allows the use of 3x Prison Cutter cards and Cross Cut to inflict bleeding, which should increase overall skill factor by 30%. If comparing this build with bleeding to the one above without bleeding, this one wins hands down.
Slash Combo: Clones -> Zwercchau (19035%) -> 1x Cleave (4443%) -> 2x Zucken (46514%) -> 2x Seism (19215%) -> Crown (7688%) -> Moulinet (13742%) -> 2x Cleave (9232%).
Combo Skill Factor: 119869%
Strike Combo: Clones -> 5x Mordschlag (38355%)
Combo Skill Factor: 38355%
Swordman 1 -> Peltasta 3 -> Rodelero 3 -> Murmillo 1 -> Shinobi
A very defensive build when compared to doppel, but still boasting superior burst damage. Note that Umbro Thrust’s defense reduction is not being considered into the calculations. You can expect the skill factor of at least Shooting Star and 1x or 2x Targe Smashes to be about 25% higher than what’s it’s stated in the combo.
Also not considering the fact Umbo Blow can hit twice during block staggers.
Strike Combo: Clones -> High Kick (731%) -> 1x Headbutt (1978%) -> 2x Shooting Star (28886%) -> 3x Targe Smash (22434%) -> 2x Shield Bash (19040%) -> 2x Butterfly (19470%) -> 2x Umbo Blow (11464%)
Combo Skill Factor: 104003%
Swordman 1 -> Peltasta 1 -> Hoplite 2 -> Rodelero 3 -> Murmillo 1 -> Shinobi
Among the best burst damage builds in iToS right now, so I decided to include it here. This build however will have inferior burst dps when compared to the build above due to the fact that Butterfly will be clone-able.
Strike Combo: Clones -> High Kick (731%) -> 1x Headbutt (1978%) -> 2x Shooting Star (28886%) -> 3x Targe Smash (22434%) -> 2x Shield Bash (19040%)
Combo Skill Factor: 73069%
Pierce Combo: Clones -> Spear Lunge (612%) -> Synchro Thrust (18241%)
Combo Skill Factor: 18853%
Final Considerations
Are doppel builds stronger? Yes. But, like I mentioned before, these combos are considering Zwercchau throughout the whole combo duration. Even then, you should still be having around 100k% factor with the combo. So what’s the downside? Well, pretty simple. As it has been stated before, doppels are pretty squishy. Even more with DoV and clones out.
Let’s also remember what IMC stated for negative effects nullifying positive ones. If you have an effect that reduces damage by 19% (positive effect) and DoV that increases damage you take by 19% (negative effect), these effects won’t nullify eachother anymore. DoV increases damage you take by 19% and clones by another 50%. I believe the attribute to remove 20% of extra damage you take while clones are up was also removed? So that’s 69% extra damage just for DoV and Clones out… Without a shield, that can be a real hassle.
Even without all that damage increase, I find Doppels quite squishy already when partying in ET or high lvl Challenges. As a Cleric I prefer Murmillos and other shield wielders for partyplay just because they are sturdier. I think it would be fine to have Doppel better DPS than shield wielders. So the tradeoff between both types would be clearer: Doppel has more DPS but less survivability, Murm has less DPS but better survivability.
I’m of of these persons who even got F in maths tests, I think a lot of people wanting to see the exact damage output of “meta” but there was nowhere to find on forum.
Maybe I’m asking too much but can you compare with
- wizzard 3 elementalist 3 / warlock 3
- random thauma 3 featherfoot 3
- random warlock 1 + shadowmancer 2
- archer 3 / ranger 3 / rogue 1 / mergen 2
- random canoneer 3
- random bullet marker 2
- archer 1 ranger 3 rogue 3 hackapell 2
- random musketeer 3
The point is that we nobody players are not in the dark anymore for “popular” builds.
Thanks again.
err… arent the new doppely cloneable skill should be C3 sturtzhau instead of zucken?
Link to list of “New” Shinobi clone skills please! for those of us out of the loop.
Scroll down to Shinobi portion
Nicely done, but the clones copy Sturtzhau, not Zucken. Heck, that’s even stronger. Also, the dmg attribute gives +50%, not 100%.
(edit: oops, I fucked up)
Self: 271% * 6 hits * 3.13 = 5,090% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%, DoV +33%, Sturtzhau Atrib +50%]
Clones: 271% * 6 hits * 2.3 * 5 clones = 18,699% [Cleave +50%, Zwercchau +80%]
Total: (5,090 + 20,732)% * 2 overheats = 51,644%
Not only the multiplier is higher, but Sturtzhau also ignores a portion of the enemy’s def, so yeah, that’s TONS OF DAMAGE.
Good god! that’s a lot of good stuff, I think we’re gonna need some more reset events for our completely unrecognisable characters after this patch hits.
Really like the new list of Clone cast-able spells. Fun
It’s good we have more skills for clones, but let’s not forget the damage will decrease way too much. No more attributes, damage increase buffs or anything. It’ll be the raw damage of skill. Probably a good transweapon will make the difference, but not the same as before