Not bad enough since their shop buffs lasts an hour. Time to screw it to 5 minutes just like a priest.
well pardoner is a merchant class, its supposed to be used to maake money, not t be viable in combat. no reason a single circle shoudl be able to make another class completely useless
Yep, Daino and Barrier scrolls need to be removed too.
Remove pardoner class, replace with stripper class. Problem solved.
They can still sell priest buffs, but instead of simony they will have other buffs in their own class that they can sell. Also some additional party skills.
To think people still defend this Pardoner idea. It’s an entirely ridiculous excuse for a class, welcome to a class that runs off of selling skills of other classes and isn’t even played once scroll selling / buff selling skill level is achieved.
Scrolling all the skills like it used to was dumb, being able to scroll any other classes skills is also dumb. If it’s too hard to give the class it’s own specific scrolls to craft, remove it.
You don’t just make a game with all these classes and just go. "Well let’s make a class that can create scrolls using skills of other classes. Then anyone can buy and use them."
What kind of nonsense is this!
Krivis got hurt by it and (Paladin got a circle 3 skill given to a mere circle 1 class…This is not ok, ever. An attribute doesn’t change that this is dumb.)
I feel bad for classes like Sadhu because i remember in beta days they were actually used and they just got shafted because of a mixture of bugs, nerfs and are now collecting dust along with other classes.
2 Likes
The problem with pardoners (and every other crafter class) is the same problem with most of this game’s skills: lack of scaling to higher content.
300k silver is a lot for a lv 100, average for a lv 200, not so much for a lvl 280, and literally nothing for a lvl 330. You’ll always make a “fix” amount of silver regardless of what you pick after the last circle of your crafter class. If your pardoner makes 300k selling buffs over the night now, you might not even bother setting up your shop (or selling scrolls) when rank 8 content comes because you’ll be easily able to make that amount of money in less than an hour (well, you already can - but it will be even easier then).
I have a paladin 3 pardoner that I literally never bothered selling barrier scrolls with because it’s too much trouble waiting for the 2 days for silvers in market and the amount of profit made can be easily replaced by a few hours grinding or even questing.
I think higher level pardoners should profit more the higher level they are. It makes zero sense to level a buff seller pardoner up to 330 because you’ll still profit the same as if you were level 180.
And I actually like the idea of a Pardoner-like class. When it’s done correctly, anyway. Having the ability to use other classes abilities without them there is fine, as long as the actual version versus the compact version yields a weaker result and therefore; still holds the desire of the actual versus the scroll ability.
Nobody particularly cares incredibly much about Krivis as it’s a building-block class circle. It gives utility for later on and power where you’re at currently, and investing deeper into said tree gives you D. Stigma and Melstis. You don’t particularly hear people begging for Krivis’ for Daino, but when one is there you feel relieved. Believe it or not, I don’t mind having Barrier being scrollable if bloody Paladin had more to it. Killing Pardoner wouldn’t solve that Paladin is a one-trick pony when it can’t even do it’s niche as well as a class a rank underneath it.
However, buffing Paladin to where the Pardoner version of Barrier is one dimensionally weaker than Paladin’s own Barrier would vastly improve how people perceive Paladins. In fact, their kits are incredibly hamstrung and need some serious number tuning. If they’re the defensive side to Inquisitor’s offensiveness, they really don’t provide anything aside: you guessed it, Barrier with a side of Resist Elements.
Sadhu’s had a sad life. Once pretty damn strong they were nerfed without actually addressing what made them strong, and then nerfed again. Combine that with the already buggy skill displacement and you get. You can make it work, but why would you when Diev is just straight better no matter what? The same goes for Paladin.
i thin that pardner should be able to sell its own scrolls at its shop.
so they buy/farm materials to create scrolls for entirely new skills.
pardoner was based off of scrolls, and only 2 skills are based off of it.
why not have pardoner buy/farm items to craft its dmg skill and its other skills, and be able craft a bunch of other buff scrolls (new buffs) and then sell those (buffs only) at the shop
rather than pardoner making some classes useless, they make their own scrolls, and a few scrolls they create will be good enough to make up for blessign and sacrament being unsellable
Guess you’re just going to ignore the it does nothing but sell other class skills. Since you know Pardoner players love that magic defence buff they use so much. Or that often seen other rank 2 dispel in the game. (Yes this is sarcasm)
If this scroll selling class idea is all right. Let’s get one for swordsman, archer and wizard trees.
Swashbuckling, guardian, high guard, finestra, deads of valor.
Running shot, swift step, capture, sneak hit.
Haste, stop, sleep, stone curse, sure spell, quick cast.
So all that and more possibly would make sense if an attribute makes the original better right. That’s how you see it. Certainly this would go over well with everyone who plays.
So enlighten me. How an attribute could fix barrier especially? Whether it is a level 1 or 5 barrier it will out last it’s cooldown once it’s made into a barrier scroll anyway. Barrier has a longer duration than it’s cooldown by default. I was under the impression the majority of players use it solely to block out enemies, what kind of attribute could even begin to remedy this for Paladin.
Now for daino. Oh yeah it has a long duration too, by default, which also outlasts it’s cooldown. Is it not levelled up more just to get another additional buff added? What attribute is going to solve the original being better for daino?
How is just giving Pardoner it’s own specific skill scrolls to craft and sell not better?
Pardoner would no longer have to be commonly only a priest, krivis or paladin. It could be anything else and free from a forced path. It would still sell scrolls and not be a nuisance to other classes in the cleric tree.
Maybe it wasn’t clear in the first place, somehow. Let me try and explain it again for you.
You do not create a multitude of classes, simply to give their specific skills away to one single class. That is absurd! As it goes against the idea of diversity. This is an MMO having different classes are in them for this reason. To promote diversity within the game.
Who exactly are these “Nobody particularly cares incredibly much about Krivis” people? I doubt every Krivis player agrees with that. Can’t just claim that as if it applies to all of them.
You don’t hear people beg for Dievdirby’s zemyna or vakarine statues either.
Paladin is the defensive side to Inquisitor, what are all the other cleric tree classes actually help “shield you” so to speak, from the pain of magic damage?
Inquisitor out right uses the magic damage of enemies to get their own back.
Paladin is for reducing and in resist elements case, nullifying magic damage(yes specific element(s) if it can nullify more than one).
Inquisitor does all the hard hitting using the power from those with magic damage on top of it’s own physical damage.
However, yes. Paladin does need some improvement, a simple one was to me, always, resist elements becoming an aura with a slight change to how long it remained on cooldown.
Conversion could do with a rework or changed to a new skill. If every mob is going to be Elite come rank 8. It will have no place at all. Poor thing.
Smite needs a lower cooldown 9>4
Restoration needs to apply an dditional effet
resist element need 100% uptime and aura
turn undead needs lowe cooldown
conversion needs to be replaced
barrier needs to be unscrollable
nohing really wrong with conviction other than its damage and coodlown
Yes and that’s what I’ve been wanting for a long time.
Squire sells it’s own specific set of goods.
Alchemist sells it’s own specific set of goods.
Pardoner sells other peoples’ set of skills…Excuse me what!?!
https://d1sui4xqepm0ps.cloudfront.net/categories/confused-meme?foo=bar
also pardoner only has 1 use, to sell skills.
Alchemist:
Create+sell potions
Awaken items
Roasting gems
Create+Sell Homonculus
Briquetting+combining item
Squire:
Sell food
Repair
Weapon maintancne
armor maintanence
Enchanter:
Enchant Armor
Create+Sell scrolls
Pardoner:
Create+sell scrolls
even enchanter a class with only 1 circle has more uses than pardoner, and it doesnt break wizard he way that pardoner breaks cleric
plus pardoner requires you to go specific routes
You seem hung up on the fact that making scrolls for skills is a thing.
Let me info dump for you then,
All scrolls a pardoner makes do not get their attributes, benefit from your stats and anything else except the plain old skill.
As for priest buffs, Blessing is infinitely inferior compared to an actual priest’s blessing due to the scaling buffs. The other two are generally only good because they last long.
You seem to think that some scrolls that a person rolled their specific character for (which by the way invalidates that character as something playable. It just becomes a scroll making merchant) specific scrolls as replacing the class entirely. That is such a laughable assumption that i dont even know where to start to refute it because its so absurd.
I like Pardoners mainly because of Discerning Evil being a disgusting support skill if used correctly, and they’re just a really niche support role that if it isn’t afk spell shopping is usually filling the marketplace with valuable scrolls (Daino, Turn Undead, Barrier, etc.). They aren’t incredibly valuable, but when they apply correctly they can make a difference.
Alot of the spells you mentioned though wouldn’t have use on other classes. Like say, Finestra and High Guard, Running Shot and Swift Step; They’d ultimately become even more niche than Pardoner itself. If Swash still required it’s stance, not many people could actually make use of it even still. Enchanter is also a thing, though an unpopular thing due to skipping the power creep that is R8 versus what is actually scrollable.
Let’s take Joint Penalty for instance. The holy bread and butter for Linkers and what they’re most noted for using when mobbing: linking enemies together. Yes other classes can use it while grinding and not have a Linker. No it is not ethical for spamming due to the price of how much just a few of these scrolls would cost, and No it does not invalidate Linker’s existence in a party.
How to make Paladin’s Barrier more wholesome than a Scrollable Barrier? All Barrier does is usually keep enemies out of a moderate area of space and somewhat increases the MDEF of those who stand in it. You could actually give it Status Protection since Paladin C3 collides with Oracle at R6; in which people grab usually for Prophecy and Counter Spell alone. You could actually give people a reason to stand it in it aside for spacing, for one. Perhaps Resistance to getting knocked down or a Fire Wall like passive that gives a % of the Paladin’s damage to everyone else to Holy Attribute.
Paladin itself can’t do what other classes can do and do well. Diev is all encompassing diversity, and Krivis is a great building block class. Base Cleric is very solid, and only a few things are notably worse than Paladin; feelsSadhuMan.
Base Cleric: Safety Zoooone
Diev: Carve World Tree mutes mobs from actually doing anything, which indirectly does shield you. There’s also Ausrine, which protects you against ALL damage provided you get the buff.
Oracle: Counter Spell doesn’t protect against EVERY spell, but it mitigates alot of them.
PD: While it doesn’t shield you directly, Healing Factor does mitigate damage you take.
Bokor: Mackangdal just delays all damage you take for a moment. If you can Ausrine or Safety Zone before it goes away, you shouldn’t take damage.
Yet Paladin only gets partial RNG magic mitigation. Paladin needs a facelift.
But to not go on forever; No I wouldn’t mind if Pardoner would get it’s own real set of special skills to sell off. But there’s more to it than just damning a class. We already did that to Sadhu, we don’t need more abandoned classes. We need to make more, have more cohesion, which Paladin is in need of.
There is a saying and it goes assumption is the mother of all screw ups.
This is what you’re doing. I seem to think none of those things. YOU seem to think all of them. You and only you.
Here is the reason why people ask questions to make sure they understand things they’ve read or heard correctly.
I already know the Pardoner scrolls don’t take attributes or benefit from stats. Already know blessing buff scales and Pardoners aren’t aloud it.
This doesn’t mean you should be selling another classes skills and it took how long before blessing ever scaled to begin with? Yeah going on like it ever started that way.
So the other two priests skills are better on Pardoner to you?
Is that a 1 in 3 skills where only 1 isn’t better then?
Where is the replaces the class entirely section to my posts that i’m thinking? You see it. Yet i myself, don’t.
I’ve said they are used to sell scrolls and sell buffs. How does that mean i believe they replace a class entirely?
Can you point me to where i directly say I believe it to be replacing a class entirely?
You know because otherwise it’s again only your own assumption.
Are you sure you just didn’t like what i said? I have trouble understanding where you could pull those ideas from, when i don’t point to it being the way I’m thinking myself.
How am i the one that is complaining that making scrolls is a thing when every post you’ve made in this thread is an essay long on how much you hate pardoners for existing
All right so you just don’t like what you read.
Can you leave me now to reply to someone trying to discuss and address.
Notice how chillcross does it, it’s how progress is made. Nice and simple.
(Oh look here’s my point of view, I see what you said and i counter that by saying this.)
Rinse and repeat. From both parties.
Discerning evil i agree with, it does it’s job well. The barrier ideas are nice, but I don’t think it will prevent just buying the scroll from prevailing. (It’d be nice to be wrong though. Yes, I understand you weren’t saying ideas as if they were a guaranteed solution.).
Yep, I walked into that one with the magic damage. I knew my intentions might not be conveyed right, my bad. Yes everything you listed is correct and based on what I said I am wrong, What i meant and did a poor job of meaning is without being “Well hey you’re immune to everything” skills that helped you against magic damage.
Which would still be carve world tree and counter spell(since it is only for magic.).
Essentially Paladin is a poor mans version where all of these are concerned and that is saddening. Yes if Paladin is to be the magic mitigator it needs to do it better.
I don’t like Enchanter scrolling for the same reason. Enchanter scrolls are expensive (for now) but can it also get it’s own skills to scroll. Without scrolls it has armour enhancement(MDef buff ought to be a quite seller.). Enchanter isn’t forced into scrolling. It has another option.
Pardoner is stuck being something that sells scrolls or opens a shop, but it doesn’t get to do either with any real freedom. It’s fixed by what it can be built from, with a Bokor route being the only exception i’m sure of(that doesn’t have to care for simony / spell shop at all) To me, it’s own scrolls could help alleviate this. In the first circle it’s other skills are good. Yet incentive for anyone to be circle 2/3 Pardoner is (spell shop / really wanted circle 3?). Surely, this is problem.
Glad you see my side. I don’t want to force my ideals down because even I know I’m twisted more than a helix pretzel, but that’s what I picture. It’s more work than IMC will ever put in, but I’m used to getting disappointed by KoG. Repetitively. Still worth trying to rally some attention towards it. 
I do agree that it’s rather odd that a Pardoner can’t sell it’s own skills. I’d love Discerning Evil scrolls like it’s a crime. In itself, the actual “offensive” portions of Pardoner are gimmicky and don’t even work well. I’d like a rework that actually gives the option of either “AFK marketman” or “Money-Grubbing Cleric”, but that may be asking abit much considering it took Alchemist C3 to actually get decent offensive (although derp) potential.
lel all these people just now finding out what sadhu is.
best part about being sadhu is that you can even go into the high level maps and amaze people bcuz they never saw a sadhu before