well for me I just don’t really get the point of the jumping function if you’ll just abuse the jump function I know that there will be implementation of stamina for jumping I believe. but for me jumping randomly seems kinda retarded and no cause at all plus you have the built in dodge and block from what I think jumping should be remove on this game because jumping seems like an ability to randomly dodge attacks with no pattern or whatsoever I don’t care if it’s hard but having the warnings on the grounds seems a really good concept to me if imc can pull it off properly. have been playing Granado espada and having the red warning was a really cool concept for me tbh like for example a level 300+ boss that showers seems infinitely rain of meteors and you need to dodge them all properly because it does a ton of damage even for tankers will be so cool then proceed on backstabing or going for the weakspot of that boss to stun that boss something like that was on my mind before but anyways. love the game!
oh by the way. I believe tree of savior has a massive potential on becoming a hit mmorpg if imc will utilize all the things that they have on this game. there first idea and concept of dodging and jumping at the right time to avoid enemy skills is what really makes me want to play this game and im a RO player too. but for me if IMC is targeting players who wants to play this game because they want to relieve the feeling of playing RO I think the best option is to remove the jumping function. because for me jumping is cheap it’s like a skill you can spam just to dodge luckily without any stats of dodge or an ability to block. so if IMC is targeting this game to be RO then definitely remove the jump ability because it ruins the game. but what i’m fearing now is that tree of savior might fall to the same mmorpg out there that has the same gameplay like trickter online,nostale, priston tale,rose online and many other that didn’t really aged well tree of savior shouldn’t compete with a game play like that since WOW is already doing that. but of course I might be wrong. for me if IMC will utilies the jump ability ,dodging on this game and the warning indicators that the boss is making. I believe that tree of savior will be a successful game.
for example:
making a boss that do a shock wave skill that can cover a full stage. and the only way to dodge it is to jump or either cast a spell to enormously boost defense for a little time. or makes a character invulnerable for a second
make a boss that digs a hole on the ground. then warning sign will show up where will the spikes will appear.
make an armor that disables jump greatly improved defense on physical damage but tremendously decreases magic resistance and using the armor impairs movement speed tremendously.
a boss that fly and goes out of the screen and does aerial barrage of lasers and you need to dodge it.
boss stages with many booby traps like a laser fence and other traps that needs precise jumping
other skills of bosses hit someone that is jumping and has a different warning sign color
make a tumble,sidestep,teleport and summersault skill for a certain classes that makes dodging a little easier.
if this will not work remove the jump and red indicator and make it as RO as possible the game will be more playable. screw spell checker man. : )
They’re even making Touhou bosses.
yeah I think that was there first idea but then many fans wants to disable the warning signs and imc treats there fans and game players idea with respect.
oh yeah and they should make a boss that is so fast that it kills anything that it runs in warning indicators will show where will the boss run towards but you need to remember the pattern in order to the dodge perfectly.
As @Erisk said,
the Oracle has the skill “Forecast”. Where’s the sense of it if the indicator is visible for everyone?
well to be honest when i saw the first trailer of TOS. I thought TOS will really keep the indicator for boss battles to optimize the jumping feature and dodging enemy boss skill. but then the community started saying that the game is pretty easy because of that (which is true) and thus IMC removed the indicator and made the game hard as much as they could but of course still balance and I’m well aware that imc said that the indicator is only for beginner levels but when i saw the trailer I didn’t think of that because other bosses shows the warning indicators too. like i said yes it’s on the oracle class skill but I just believe IMC will have much more potential if they will just make this game as ragnarok as they can and remove the jump skill. since i believe it is pretty cheap or utilize to it’s full the jump and dodge mechanics of the game. and putting it to a oracle skill for me is pretty much okay is just that i think oracle is a rank 6 class and fighting bosses on low tier level without any indicators provokes players to just jump attack and jump attack which I just feel kinda weird for me. because what i’m pointing out is that oracle skill will be a big game changer if the show time of the warning signs on bosses attack pattern is more than 1 second i think the bosses will be a real push over and people will say again that tree of savior bosses are too easy. so in the end it depends on how imc will implement on how long will be the show time of the warning sign for the boss to attack.
I have no idea what you whine about its like you want and don’t want the indicators to be there.
Even without red indicator bosses are too easy
i have to tell you happily that this was already a hit mmorpg the moment it’s cbt was announced haha XD
imagine having touhou bosses spawn in the middle of town <3 epic XD
That’s the time when you think:
“I should have done a Wizard.”
Man, I understand what all of you are saying. Although, for me the intensity in games like that don’t come from them plain telling you something is about to happen. I just love the fast paced AI and the type of player it shapes you into for victory. Its like you are becoming stronger with every loss, you gain experience mentally, not by numbers. Eventually you have these reflexes that let you predict everything that will come, you stop losing to new bosses and play in a way that clearly shows others your skill. You know you’re playing a fun MMORPG when you grow stronger in real life with the character, can make beginners or new viewers envy you and start playing to be like you. Being able to dodge full screens of things that can debuff, highly damage, or straight kill you can bring an amazing feeling of intensity to ToS. Seeing the patterns in every bosses movement and attacks is more or less the indicator on its own, the trick to beating these type of bosses. Which is why you won’t see obvious flashy ones in games like Assault Android Cactus or Ys Origin knowing the patterns and being able to avoid super fast AI naturally is so cool. Fighting new, interesting, unique bosses and having to dodge things you don’t know will 1 hit or you not, and look impossible to dodge is when its alright to have the visible red indicator. This is why the koreans wanted ToS to be a very fast paced game since it was first closed beta tested, that could give it potential to be something greater, not just a dime a dozen in MMORPG releases.
The problem here is most of the bosses and mobs I’ve seen don’t have that level of speed or aggressiveness in them. Quite a few bosses already have the right animations & move sets, similar to games like Ys Origin, Assault Android Cactus, Touhou Project, they just lack the amount of projectiles, whole screen flashy unique attacks, and sense of actually wanting to win. You can’t get the feeling of every mob wanting you dead like its personal, actions like bosses moving similar to a player and using their play style against them (hopping all the time) is rarely added into a game like ToS. What we need now are bosses having 10x as strong buffs and abilities than the ones we use. We’re fighting AI so its okay to make them game breaking. I can see them making ToS more like touhou in endgame areas, no one can complain how hard a game is when its supposed to be as hard as possible. All we would need are mechanics like double jump, more movement speed increases, aerial & underground attacks, multiple homing projectiles that debuff or instant kill if you can easily out run them. All of this depth and complexity that could be, wasn’t chosen to be added anywhere for us to see. The game is very simple and cookie cutter when you remove the unique look and RO nostalgia. We all know no one will look at a new game’s end game or want to suffer what they don’t want before they get what they want.
Just giving everyone indicators would make ToS look very silly. Its not like there will ever be a situation where some 50k HP tanky hopper will be stunned by an aerial attack, then killed by a super slow, small, and linear 99% HP ground attack… The way it is now, some bosses have the attack speed where they should unconditionally 1 hit everyone since anyone can dodge them and the attacks are leaning towards Dragomon Hunter lvl No offense to anyone who likes the game, but I would only play it if I were a kid. No one bothers to play cautiously instead of jump spamming or simply walking away from a boss. I mean, when attacks are so weak you don’t even need to dodge anything 
this is what a red indicator for everyone will look like in ToS. I know, it can be fun to beat up a meat sack, feel good about yourself in real life after doing a ton of damage and quickly soloing some hyped up boss like kirito. To be honest here, I get very frightened whenever I read people say " Don’t worry y’all, only 10% of xxx,xxx will actually play the game " I’ve followed ToS since the start, its supposed to a great game, so why would most of the legit people interested not play… are you saying ToS just isn’t fun ? Either ToS really isn’t a good game or people had to high expectations. We also have to keep in mind that if the game has to many good mechanics available to players and doesn’t force people to give up things in exchange for others, it will be very easy no matter what the devs do. For example, we should have to give up the ability to automatically dodge in exchange for getting a tiny movement increase when upgrading dex. You want to manually block everything ? Sure, your shield has to be pointed in the way the attack is coming, its durability changes to the number of hits it can take before its destroyed and you can’t restore it. All of this helps to immerse us and makes ToS an entity in gaming. For a game using bosses as one of its selling points, its to simple and cookie cutter to beat all the ones we’ve witnessed, the gameplay doesn’t match the unique game. With all the bosses in ToS, it would surely make it the most interesting & intense game in the MMORPG market with the battle system we talk about in this thread, could even surpass RO lvl of popularity with enough videos that let potential players watch veterans boss or mob. Changing the whole game to be like this just may not be worth the investment to the devs though. There’s no guaranteed proof of the players wanting any of this stuff since no one communicates with gaming companies and says “This is exactly what 10 million of us who signed this petition as proof want in an MMORPG. Here’s an example of an MMORPG we don’t want. Avoid that at all cost, its old and we hate it, start building your MMORPGs our way instead” Why should some company break the rules trying to be different, at the risk of many players never trying it or quitting since they aren’t willing to deal with the insane depth & learning curve every day for some progression ? Yeah, me and you know it would be getting the dream game, but the game makers don’t want to spend years making a game for it to instantly die like so many MMORPGS now a days. The mindset we are in is pretty weird to, an MMORPG isn’t about winning & losing alone is it ? Go play a MoBa or Single player RPG game. Why force every player to play the game on such a high difficulty they don’t want when they can make it possible for everyone to play ? Beating bosses in MMORPGs has always been decided by numbers, the developers have to apply artificial difficulty, traps instead of what we want. They aren’t sure investing in our way will get an even bigger return in players & profit. The way it is now, people can keep playing the game and breeze through most of the content. You don’t want some guy who puts all his effort in the game to lose no matter how much he plays simply cause he can’t outplay one tough AI that’s against his whole build. You want to ensure people are dedicated to the game before forcing them to party, after they already bought countless shiny, cool and entertaining stuff assuming the game doesn’t end up going the generic P2W route.
While ToS being hard sounds very nice, we don’t want that difficulty making the player’s build pointless either. That’s why the only way to beat the impossible should be through synergy of multiple players, force players to really bond with other players and can’t progress thinking about themselves alone, let us unite multiple unique builds into one. This will allow the illusion of impossibility, while also allowing a really dedicated team to progress. This never happens in games now a days, people don’t want to mentally and physically be one unit in a game. Even in simple cases like fighting a boss with a cleric, you rarely see everyone go inside the safety shield. Just socializing is nice and all, but yeah… at the end of the day nothing really immerses us into this game and gets us to strive. Maybe I am just getting to old for gaming and its meant for kids alone ? Then explain why I feel like I’ll have purpose and actually be in the game when I play NA black desert.
We won’t get ToS filled with hard bosses for same reason people who want ICBT1 exp rate or lower won’t get the whole game like that. Many love it and are experienced with it, even believe it can be the greatest thing for ToS, despite no MMORPGS doing it now a days. Its just to much of a hassle for others to have fun on the game. The most they can do right now is make every boss a little bit faster/active, remove all the trap spamming, instead make them summon more minions with synergy. This may stop the jump spamming, people won’t have to worry about traps everywhere and have to kill the monsters on ground before they pile up & buff the boss to much.
tldr
If the game was more non linear the developers could make it any way they wanted while pleasing everyone, can’t even put into words how everything would be so much better 
I agree. Imagine players jumping in synchronization when a certain boss does a ground laser attack in a circular motion or players doing formations to boost defense when boss is doing a full screen attack. or players going inside protective barriers. this is what i want to see not some players attack jump attack jump attack jump. so what im proposing is the put a red indicator for projectiles but for physical attacks of bosses no need. and when i mean projectiles not the lasers with pattern or firepillars that shows animations to the ground but the acid spray type of projectiles.
I know that’s why i’m here in the forums because I have been waiting for this game since 2013.
i believe tos can be a great game if we could have these type of mechanics indeed im not saying that you need to be an expert to defeat bosses. it really depends on how you play either solo or with party. for example doing solo boss fights is doable what you need to win is great reflexes and timing and full damages stats and a pretty good damage weapon. for partys either you make a cannoneer make walls that obsorbs projectile damage. have some good support that support the party with good buffs that changes to attack mode to defense mode. a good centurion leader that has quick reflexes when it’s time to go full turtle type def mode or full attack position mode. so in the end there are many ways to do some tactics with the boss. I don’t want to see some fights that the boss is being mob by tons of players while long ranges unit just pokes the boss until it dies. i want to see some tactics.
no thanks
2casual4me
yes that’s why im proposing too to remove the jump ability.
so what i’m saying is that imc would make this game RO3 or a tactical game but of course they can do that both I just don’t know how they can pull that of because the first thing i’m complaining about is unfair pvp if you have jumping ability. it loses the point of the auto blocking and evasion. because you are doing manual evasion which i think is unfair if it’s auto skill should be auto if it’s a spell then cast it. so what i’m saying is if the evasion and blocking has percentage then that should be that because if someone is good at jumping and casting magic spells at the same time then that skill is a homing projectile then from my point of view that is unfair for melee players that thier skills can be dodge when someone is jumping. long range players will have the upper hand with boss fight because of jump attack spamming. i’m fine with that since i love RO and that’s why i’m here im just pointing out how this game can be the true successor of RO
This is the type of topic where I want to say: If you haven’t beaten Megaman 1-2-3 on NES without savestates, you don’t get a vote on this matter.
I only played megaman 1 and finished it didn’t have the privilege to play the other megaman famicom games
but i’m more of an X player only thing if finished in famicom that is hard as megaman is castlevania,adventure island and the mario series games. i played the sega sonic series. oh btw I want to see a boss too that goes to a different area but not litterally going to a different map what i’m meaning to say is the boss goes to a different area in the stage and you need to jump moving platforms pit holes to cross over to the other area or maybe a boss stage a dragon when weak is fleeing to the top of a castle that you need to climb and there is rocks that is rolling down on your path spike you need to jump and pendulum clock scythe thingy that you need to dodge something like that. i wish they will develop a boss like that.