On my Cleric i get the nr 1 spot only with cure/heal/owls.
Its a joke how strong this skills are at low lvl.
archer need a buff , is a joke archer lose dps from cleric or rank 2 class but donāt nerf swordman , i like pain barrier 
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I know I shouldnāt be talking about this here butā¦
Missile Hole just makes things worse.
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i have wugu with 90 atributesā¦ and mergen with 70 my char is very strong (FOR ARCHER) and my bow is +10 stage 5 aufgowle, but some clerics can beat my dps with no trans weapomā¦ its very unbalance
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As much as I agree that there are things for archers to get better (and to all classes). This is not the case with me, my SR have 90% attributes too but Stage 7 orange gears, itās pretty hard to find someone without a decent weapon to out-dps, especially if we have the same support setup.
On this, sometimes I get top 1 over an Ele3Wl2 with T8 orange staff with both on Melstis+Card buff 100% uptime.
Problems are still the same, so yeah, still alive
Archers should have a massively insane DPS, but in exchange of mobility, life, defense since they almost donāt have party utility skills.
When I saw Kneeling Shot for the first time i was like āOMG, so Iāll be fixed on the ground and exposed to any enemy to have a nice range and tons of dpsā, but the skill is almost useless.
Archers donāt have life, defense, damage, AOE, or a decent range and iām sure that IMC wouldnāt look at archers before 2018, balance stats take time and why should IMC listen to our cry ?
it makes no sense how archerās dps is sub par when they lack mobility, health and defense but they have to invest in both str and dex for armor pierce and accuracy while a wizard or cleric has no need to invest in other stats, they can just straight up build full con why should they be allowed to perform well without increasing any of the main offensive stats?
spells donāt miss and canāt be blocked with stats yet majority of them deal way too much dps, i hope the summer balancing will address that but i have my doubts.
@STAFF_Yuri @STAFF_Max @STAFF_Ethan @STAFF_Amy @STAFF_Letitia @STAFF_Ines @GM_Francis
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just do it
~wigglewiggle,2017
As you see in the changes 70% from the dmg still comes from the weapon.
So i doubt it will change anything from the full con meta Cleric/Wiz in pvp.
Still hope for a way to make Doppel usefull in pvp :<
Str / Dex / Int should work with weapons and not as secondary bonus.
I donāt like to compare ToS with RO, but iāll use RO attack formula as example:
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WeaponATK = ( BaseWeaponATK + Variance + STRBonus + RefinementBonus ) Ć SizePenalty
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Variance = Ā± 0.05 Ć WeaponLevel Ć BaseWeaponATK
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STRBonus (melee weapons) = BaseWeaponATK Ć STR Ć· 200
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DEXBonus (bows) = BaseWeaponATK Ć DEX Ć· 200
As fictional value: Lets assume iām a swordsman and have a random sword +7 that gives me 500 basic attack and 120 additional attack from refinement. And 100 Str.
My Weapon attack will be: (500+ Variance+250+120) x SizePenalty. Ignoring Variance and SizePenalty we have 870 damage to be applied in skill formula.
If i have 500 Str instead: ( 500 + Variance + 1250 + 120 ) x SizePenalty.
1870 damage ignoring SizePenalty and Variance.
This difference increases with higher attack weapons. I donāt know the best formula for ToS, but a full str build shouldnāt lose in dps against a full Con build.
worry not saviors, the archer meta wonāt be so trash after the new balance update. 
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Time for swordman to be trash again. Kappa
Iāve still never seen a non trash swordy in real lifeā¦ just heard that they were #1 dps on the forums thoughā¦
I still havenāt seen any kTOS vids of archer. Where arreee theeeyyyyyā¦
Btw. The reason ragnarok str and dex worked was that the bonus was STR or DEX divided by 10 rounded down to the closest 10 value and then squared. So 25 Strength for example would only give a bonus of 25%10= 2^2=4 bonus but when you got 120 it would be 12^2 or 144 and itās at the 110,120,130 + marks where the bonus really added depth for the trade off in terms of damage. It sacrificed a lot of secondary stats for an exponential bonus. This game would need a similar system that took a bonus like that and multiplied it further to make a big difference.
Further more, each stat point was exponentially more expensive to buy and went up exponentially, so 1-9would be a single point, 10-19 would be 2, the next bracket 4, etcā¦ til you got to 90 and spent 18 or so stat āpointsā for a single stat. It rewarded specialization with exponential bonuses and the con was if you went 90 str for example, you could only get70agi 52 dex and like 30 con, where if you went 70 strength you could make all 4 of your other stats about 70.
Similarly defense was similar in that each point was more valuable than the next since armor def was 1:1 and bonus armor was 3(maybe 4 itās been a while) to 1. So each defense point was 1% reduction each successive point added a greater reduction, especially as you crested 80 true defense. for example: if you took 1000 damage at 80 def you would reduce it to 200, if you had 85 it would reduce it to 150, which makes that 85 additional make you take 25% less than at 80. If you were at 90 you would take 50% less damage than 80 defense.
There is a reason the stat system worked so well with crazy modifiers, since both defense and offense scales exponentially with greater investment.
To make my point in comparison, int and strength in tree of savior needs an exponential scale to really make a noticible impact, and to make a strong choice between defensive and offensive stats as a balance. The mix between flat reduction and percentage reduction made those bonuses essential to break the defense of a knee player or monster. Weapon damage was relatively low(144 ish at the top end) the real damage came from cards multiplying physical damage further and stacking different multipliers so they would be multiplicative instead of additive.
Btw, the int scaling in ragnarok online was in multiples of 4, and it was needed since there was also the flag reduction of magic and physical damage based off the base stat, so 100 Con or int would reduce the damage further by a flat amount while giving similar small % decrease in overall damage. I.e 10 vit would give 1% additional pure defense( not exact, still fuzzy in exact amount)
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Since i start my sw1/highc3/barb/Doppel im always #1 in duns even pyros dont have a chace on normal mobbs wellā¦
Pyros always faster ~.~
Even if i 1shot the mobs too.
Funny sitenote some pyros get pissed in the 160/200er dun if they dont get the 1# spot and rush to the nextboss just for the #1 xD
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happens to me ALL THE TIME
Interesting. At rank 8, as Fletcher3/mergen, I always take #1 and have yet to be outdpsāed by any Doppels. :s
I guess it just dependsā¦
awesome sharing hahahah i am agree with all the comments.