Tree of Savior Forum

Archer and Scout on Re:Build

General Discussion
#1

I feel like there’s alot of stuff that’s missing or on the wrong place(AKA Linker on Scout for example). I created this thread to know if anyone thinks like me or what are their thoughts on how I see the situation. First we have to discuss the split. They could keep the split or mix them back together, but there are a few changes that need to be done no matter what:

-Move Linker to Cleric.
-Move Enchanter back to Wizard, unless reworked.
-Move Alchemist to Scout and adapt it to be less magical, unless it is like alchemy reaches magic, not the other way around.
-If item awakening is just a shop, keep it to alchemist, otherwise move it to enchanter.
-Give Vendetta to Outlaws.
-Move Burrow to Outlaw or Scout. It’d be best to give it to Outlaw.

Why?

Linker has nothing to do with Scout really, but I feel like it’s misplaced on Wizard tree, even if it is a core to some builds currently. Plus, they said that new Scout tree is supposed to Support without being linked to religion or healing, here https://treeofsavior.com/page/news/view.php?n=1534 . Linker links people or monsters through their spirits, and current Spiritual Chain proves it, aswell as does Spirit Shock and Lifeline. How does that not sound religious, or at least, based on Faith? Based on that, I think Linker should go to Cleric, who’s already a support tree, don’t have as much dps as other trees(so they don’t abuse it as Wizards do) and is related to religion.

It just does not make sense to me to give Enchanter to Scout the way they designed pre or pos Re:build. It even has lost its craft scroll ability. And it’s a freaking magical class with nothing to do with being stealthy, attack fast, shoot or even make money aside from ENCHANTED armor shop. Sure they could give them a support class LIKE enchanter and that’s where Alchemist comes in. Alchemist feels like it has no place in Wizard tree, role wise and build wise. Seriously, no one who wants to take Wizard seriously will get Alchemist, it is awful. The other ones are self-explanatory.

  • Now if keeping both Scout and Archer:
    -Move Wugushi, Musketeer, Cannonner, Fencer(or Matador) and Hackapell to Scout

  • This should:
    -Balance Swordsman to do what they are meant to do, not attack from afar.
    -Fix issues with classes on branches they have nothing to do with.
    -Give more classes to Scout tree which is lacking.
    -Give less options to Archer classes, which is a bad thing. Must be fixed
    introducing new classes.

  • The other choice:
    -Mix Scout and Archer tree back together, and make Scout the base class.
    -Move Oblique Shot to Scout tree so you get a skill that is generic for all
    ranged weapons and remove the other one. Daggers, Guns and (Cross)Bows as
    initial weapons.
    -Move Cloaking to Assassin.
    -Move Hackapell to Scout, and adapt Hackapell to use daggers (too).

  • This Should:
    -Give Scout some choices that were lost since they were split.
    -Give Archer classes back their choices.
    -Also fix the issue with classes on branches they have nothing to do with.
    -Fix the issue with Scout and Archer trees having not enough classes.

These ones I won’t explain, as you guys can imagine why. I think thaumaturge was a good choice, as it can be treated as a body alteration class, which fits the role, since I’m bringing Alchemist in. Regardless of all of that, Ranger and Mergen always gives me a feeling of: Why Ranger, if we have Mergen? The answer would be in ranks and circles, but we don’t have them anymore and this issue need to be addressed.

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#2
  1. Linker in terms of skills would suit cleric however in terms of role background it belongs in scout. They’ve stated that support roles will be placed in either cleric or scout with a single factory determining which one, whether or not it has religious backgrounds. Given linker has no ties to religion and infact works well as a scout rounding up enemies. I’d say it belongs in scout.
  2. Given the changes to the stat system I’d say enchanter would be pretty useless in wizard, you can’t play dex wizard anymore making it’s auto attacking role relatively useless so it’d only really act as a support class and as stated before, support classes are either cleric or scout. Having a single support class within wizard, especially one that previously was focused on dex builds, would make it an awkward fit to most builds for wizards. Meanwhile the auto attack buff along with the few defensive buffs and offensive buffs make it work well along side a few other options in scout. (Depending on how buffs stack i’m tempted to either go Bullet Master > Enchanter > Corsair or swap out enchanter for assassin.)
  3. I can’t really say anything on this. It’s a yellowy-ish class. It can go wherever, these tend to be picked if you’re wanting them specifically. (Usually dedicating a class to them)
  4. I’ll skip this one as well. I can’t really argue for or against this one.
  5. Uhm, I was going to argue that it doesn’t need to change given rogue and outlaw are on the same tree but I’m guessing it got removed looking at the ktest skill planners. I’d say it’s fine staying on rogue if it was still in, swapping it to outlaw unless there’s good reasons sounds like someone wanting to make a potentially powerful role even more powerful by packing a night strength buff on it. Saying that looking at the skill description and it being used it makes sense that it’d be remove as it was one of rogue’s few missile attacks. Kind of difficult to use them when you no longer have a bow. (Though I guess they could give it a pistol requirement.)
  6. For this one though I can just argue take rogue. Rather than complaining rogue has skills you want why not just pick rogue, if it’s because it won’t fit into the build you want then stop complaining. If I could I’d be running Bullet, Enchanter, Corsair assassin and thaumaturge, don’t see me complaining.
    I’ve weighed the choices and decided on Bullet, corsair and assassin assuming it works as intended. All 3 have auto attack enhancing stuff, either damage % increases or attack speed increases, meanwhile bullet and assassin have a few decent aoe mobbing skills, assassin has utility and corsair has massive damage boosts from the flag. (plus stealing if that’s still in.)
    The fun is in figuring out the right build for you, not complaining until they design it the way you want. Though I won’t deny arguing is fun, finding the right thing to complain about to make them realise something they’re missing is gg.

Looking at your reasoning for some stuff it’s as if you’ve ignored the reasoning they gave for the changes (which do make sense for quite a few of them) and gone “But this is better”, to then proceed to say but if you do end up doing this you’ll have to do this, this, this and this in order to prevent other issues that’d form.

Before they do any changes to what classes are in which class tree, I’d say that first they need to balance the numbers between them with new classes to see whether or not the current classes are still the best fit for them. It’s likely they will be. But that’s likely a long way off for now. (Given the update isn’t until next week, assuming the ktest event notes are same for global release to ktos. They be having events start on the 22nd.)

#3

All spiritual sh.it aren’t religious lol Bouddism is based on spirits but it’s not a religion

#4

Buddhism is a religion that doesn’t have a god. Spirits and Souls are from religion, no matter which.

#5
  1. I do think linker has ties to religion and if you’ve read the whole thing you would’ve argued. There’s a whole paragraph about it.
  2. Fair enough, and I know that, but it doesn’t quite fit Scout either. Saying it uses DEX isn’t enough. But if they want enchanter as a Scout class they should change it.
  3. Vendetta was a skill that would fit the class, I’m not trying to buff it. It’d be better than giving a skill that do such high scaled damage that throws sand.
  4. Who said I was complaining? I even will take rogue. It just doesn’t fit the class mechanically, because rogue went full melee and what’s the point of giving Burrow which is a invisibility you can’t move but can attack, if the class itself does not do ranged attacks without depending on other classes? Outlaw just seemed right to me.

You should not be judging me as I’ve read the whole wall of text on the posts they did to announce Re:Build, and also checked skills available to each class on kTest servers. I don’t know if you’re used to deal with communities like this or developers, but there’s a thing called suggestion. Devs can but shouldn’t only do whatever they want. I do agree that certain things would cause drawbacks, but at least certain stuff wouldn’t feel so weird and awkward.

#6

Ok true, probably should have read the whole thing. Ignored the one paragraph that was actually relevant (Genuinely ignored the one paragraph, thought “right I want to bitch about this” and resumed at the wrong paragraph). Sorry for bitching.
Still wouldn’t call it religious though as you could word the skills Joint Pentalty, Hangmans Knot and Electric shock as wrapping enemies up in chains and electrocuting them. Which probably doesn’t feel that religious. I’d say the majority of the skills by one are less religious.

Uhhh, i’d say outlaw suits the skills it has, throwing sand, smashing bricks, temper tantrums and taunting. Outlaw may not be the most accurate name for the class but they all fit a theme. It’s a fighter that doesn’t care about rules, fights dirty and hates losing. Something like Vendetta definitely wouldn’t fit that, though it doesn’t really fit rogue either.

It was more my assumption, 9 times out of 10 is someone is bitching a skill from class A should be on Class B it’s because they want to take class B but want the skill from Class A. Which again like before, burrow is a skill that doesn’t seem outlaw like. I mean, he taunts monsters and draws attention to himself. They wouldn’t be hiding in the shadows preparing to attack.

#7

I think I agree with you, he’d be be the opposite of a rogue, as rogues are stealthy and from what you’ve told me, Outlaw is not. The Linker part tho, I’m not sure to feel about it, but you have a valid point.

#8

If you make the net wide enough then almost everything can be some of religion and thus has to be under cleric… . Stuff like Sorcerer and Necromancer with some form of deity and other classes as well.
Generally I was wondering why its cleric as a base class because I connect that more with Christianity than religion as a whole. Priest of various beliefs would make more sense. Though this is probably because English is not my mother language.

#9

"Assassins is the common name used to refer to an Islamic sect formally known as the Nizari_Ismailis. "

Assassin is a religious class just put them in cleric tree pls :smiley:

#10

Spiritual chain no longer exists and a lifeline is not inherently religious in any way. Also, spirituality is not inherently religious, see: druids, shamans, and other idol-based religions/mythologies.

Correct.

Except for the whole lightning hands thing, which is ultimately how they designed the class.

Strongly disagree. Alchemy is a school of “magic” in most mythologies and stories, just like sorcery or conjury or necromancy. My dream “enchanter” is a completely different role entirely, or one more like a doll master from very different games or one who “enchants” inanimate objects with life. More like an imbuer, I guess. I think in Tree, from a design perspective, they were going for the AA side of RO sage, one who is more like an elemental attack weaver. And as a design choice I think it’s okay, but the kit has always been lacking.

None of these are “scouts” in any way, lore-respectively or otherwise. None of them are even particularly good reconnaissance–hell falconer would be better than any of your choices, just give 'em some kind of birdlike predator drone (dear IMC: don’t do that.)

Swordsman is actually a lot better with the addition of hacka, since it is just a swordsman anyway, but swordsman’s main issue right now is that they have 3 weapon paths, and lots of options with 1 of those paths (spear), but not much for 2h or rapier.

Scout tree and archer tree do need a couple more classes to fill them out, but those will come. Scout has a lot of different build paths right now, as does archer, so both trees are fully functional out of the gate with a ton of options and potentially fun optimizations.

I agree on this point, mergen always felt like a really odd choice–I think it would have been a really cool 2h bow mounted class much like its namesake, but I’m okay with it just being a strong extension of 2h bow DPS. In addition to the new muskcannon, I hope they consider more strong 2h bow classes in archer so as give more options to the strong 2h bow meta. Something that plays more like (sorry) WoW marks or survival, you could easily have a marksman for 2h or more of a survivalist archer that can revive crossbows which are going to suffer the most in rebuild.

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#11

Makes sense, I just think it’s fair to be in Wizard tree because these deities aren’t known to you use “Light magic” or something like that, you know? But I also agree with the thing of the priest of various beliefs.

#12
  1. That’s ok. For spirituality: doesn’t change the fact that its base is faith, I took those mythologies and religions into account.
  2. Enchanter? Yeah. Forgot to mention that.
  3. I do know that Alchemy is a school of magic in alot of stories and game lores, but doesn’t change the fact that alchemy is more skillbased than magic based. They don’t make magic out of thin air, like Wizards do. They rely on reagents, skill and knowledge. Some of them are able to achieve magical effects due to lore, but I don’t think making Alchemy directly linked to magic was a good idea… For the kit, yeh, nothing to say about it.
  4. I don’t think IMC wanted to take Scout class as class tree because it was infact a scout, since they wanted to take Rogue in the first place. They also said the only reason they didn’t take Rogue was because Rogue didn’t have much ranged attack support, and since Scout was needing a rework and had no actual theme, they decided to take it. Therefore, the Scout tree is more like Rogue tree with ranged and support potential. Wugushi may not be Rogue related but we certainly can agree Scout needs a poison class. Since it’s been sometime since the post, I regreted on Fencer/Matador. Musketeer and Cannonner was more of like, since Gun classes are on Scout tree, why not bring all of them? and Hackapell… well… Why bring this 1 class that can use xbows to a tree that has only melee attacks and a few self-centered aoes and throw weapon skills?
  5. You said it all.
#13

Only additional thing I’d bring up here is that crossbows are in a terrible place now–and will either need to be seriously looked at or, dare I say it, even scrapped.

May seem outlandish, but I’d rather have some kind of buckler-style slot on QS (or sapper, I guess) to give archers a “shield” but still optimize both classes for using other/all remaining weapons and just ditch the archer 1h meta entirely.

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#14

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