Tree of Savior Forum

And people wondered why 2h Swords are broken

  • +16 Trans10 Skiaclipse Varna Two-Handed Sword = 12,124 ~ 17,166 ATK
  • +11 Trans10 Skiaclipse Varna Trinket = 1,783 ~ 1,783 ATK
    Total ATK = 13907 ~ 18949 (16428 AVG)
  • +16 Trans10 Skiaclipse Varna Pistol = 11,852 ~ 13,558 ATK
  • +11 Trans10 Skiaclipse Varna One-Handed Sword = 11,584 ~ 12,224 ATK ~25% = ~2976 ATK
    Total ATK = 14828 ~ 16534 (15681 AVG)

Oh you think that’s a small difference? Hold on Barbarian art exists

Total ATK without Barbarian = 13907 ~ 18949
Barbarian Arts = 50% MIN Damage Correction
Total ATK with Barbarian = 16428 ~ 18949 (17688.5 AVG)

At this point, you may ask, why fuss about 2k ATK difference isn’t that small? Hold my bear and ill tell you the exact reason why.

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/mhlg3dbljq


Here is a representation of the core formula on how Defense-Damage interaction works in Tree of Savior.

On a 26000 Defense target, although with just a 12.8% increment of ATK, resulted in 22.7% increased in final damage. Not to mention, if you take sometime into the graph, and raise the DEF values, you will only see the gap between this 2 value widen and worsen. Adding insult to injury, Blossom Bladder itself already has a skill kit that is ridiculously mind boggling (looks at Start Up) that for even worsts, adds 100% Critical Final Damage modifier.

You may ask, Cannon also have higher attack, why it isn’t as strong as you see? Few points, Cannon have a worst MIN-MAX damage range. Yes it might have ignore defense, but oh dear you forgotten again (looks at Barbarian skill, War Cry), another 10% Ignore defense that would even worsen the already bad numbers in the defense formula we sees above. Also, tenth-thousands percent skills are almost a norm in a dop-barb-bb build.

It isn’t a coincidence. It’s just how well and too much synergy going on to the classes, adding salt on top of another salt pile. I don’t see any reason why a particular class path can be as this much of power.

TL;DR

Two-handed Sword is a mistek
Trinket is a mistek
Barb is a mistek
2h Blossom Bladder is a mistek
IMC’s FORMULA IS THE MISTEK
Play BB, Smol PP

SIDE NOTES


Nice numbers btw.

5 Likes

You forgot to mention the slash vs cloth bonus which contributed to the numbers.
Also these people are ichored for Helga>

wait for the next plate boss, which reflected otherwise in ktos at least

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i was just meme-ing at this point :joy: the core problem still lies in the superior defense formula and bloated number/feature classes.

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hold your beer, 2hmace inq-zealot is comming.

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Fixed that for you, as Swordsman is already broken with both Liberate and Gung Ho as damage boosts.
Gung Ho is permanent 25.6% damage boost on base class, Liberate is a 20% uptime 50% damage boost. that’s on average 35.6% damage boost before we even come to Barbarian,Doppelsoeldner or Blossom Blader.

I still don’t understand why Cleric and Scout don’t have a nifty 6th skill to boost damage for 1 point.

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MEME-ING ALERT

So,

Swordsman have perma 25.6% boost
Wiz have perma 50% Crit
Archer have Free Iframes
Clerics have uhh guardian damage i guess?
what Scout have. OMEGAPOPO

cleric has guardian : faith = 20% magic dmg increase for 30s
AND smite : 10% physical dmg increase for 60s

scout only hab : zoom zoom (oblique shot), smol 21% dagger atk increase duration, and 25% 1h sword atk to sub weapon atk.

so yeah, buff SW

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My scout with +16 trans 10 weapon can barely complete misrus is 7 min…
I use ranger falconer fletcher archer with +11trans6 bow… did misrus in 5min… with 4 pcs smugis set, and no atk potion used.

Its broken… badly broken.

Those top sw… has boruta too…

Pretty much all magic (and some phys) Cleric skills all do roughly 9k+% on average, at base level.
And Scout has slightly less of the same, but not on every skill (just on all the classes people actually pick to deal damage, except Cor which evens out after Brutality anyway).

You’re talking only patk/matk, when there’s more to it than that.

Most swordie skills on average are within the 3-6k% range, with at least 1 10k% per class.
With the biggest exceptions being… Doppel (w/ez bleed and shock) and BB.

Nerfing Swordie’s base will just hurt every other class option, and BB will still be on top of Swordie by default. Giving other classes short duration buffs won’t change anything.

Doppel and BB are solely the problem here.

To add salt to injury, they also get a +10% additive damage modifier with the easily achievable Wastrel trinket (since they can easily keep bleeding up all the time).

But yeah, they’ve gone overboard with doppels and BB. Not that we didn’t know about it already, but still…it was obvious it would end up like this. Doppels were meta even before, buffing them further was only calling for further issues.

Exposes something kind of stupid in the content which is supposed to be a competitive metric. The neutral bosses are good because everyone is on equal footing–but when they are “random” like they are now, there are always going to be weeks where certain class types shine.

Also shows gross disparities between classes that currently have a vaivora which exists and ones that don’t. IMC really needs to stop balancing classes around gear and go back to fixing them independently of gear.

2 Likes

dont forget that zornhau arts which add 2 OH to zornhau is the craziest dmg boost art which gives zornhau x3 damage.and we know that OH is so OP cause you can spam more damage and graciously, its a great already dmg to start with. oh not to mention the x3 zucken as well. with no drawback at all like example meteor arts or epee garde art.even i dont like meta build i can tell this art is somewhere around top 5 arts.

its tree of swordman now.dont bother complaining.

Some changes need to be made faster.

I guess people don’t read after all. I am totally focused on the PATK/MATK to PDEF/MDEF interaction, which is the Defense Formula of the game, because that thing is the root of all damage in the game. Having a root level advantage can really create a domino effect which is exactly what happened here.

Defense Formula is the sole and only thing that multiplies your ATK output independently to every other different modifiers.

IMC preaches that 85 classes with thousands of combination is very hard to balance but i think they totally missed the mark. If we’re to ignore the root problem and continue balancing the class, same problem will happen again the the future when new equipment is available again. Or, come classes will continue to be ■■■■ even with decent amount of Skill Factor and stuffs.

For starters, there’s really only a few things to be done.

  1. Remove Barbarian [Leather Mastery: Animal Instinct] Arts.
  2. Change Startup to Additive multiplier like Hasisas.

Instantly you can see the effect being minimized. But no, people just wants to fire all around the places.

Still don’t understand why Defense formula is that important? Here is a perspective.

Ignoring the scale of the graph, Red line is expected output of damage range, Blue line is the actual output of the given damage range, given the Target defense as a constant.

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