Tree of Savior Forum

An honest talk about the game

First of all, I played this game from its close beta phase and throughout OBT. Unfortunately, I stopped playing this game when the level cap was raised from 280 to 330.

I am indeed a longtime Ragnarok player, and just the fact that the announcement of this game made me feel out of this world - I was super hyped, thrilled and excited for this game. Months before its release, I would check tosbase every day and research about classes and their skills.

Okay so now lets get back to the topic. I still visit the forums time to time, but it has been a year or so that I have stopped playing this game. To me, Tree of Savior was and still is a game I truly love and enjoyed. In all brutal and totalhonesty, it aches my heart to see that very few players remain. If you look past the bugs, exploits and glitches, its a game that I will always cherish. I want this game to succeed in all aspects, and make it go beyond that as well. I might just be dreaming at this point though, due to its current state.

I don’t want this game to shut down as I made lots of memories with it. The games’ overall visuals, depth, and feel are almost very hard to find (except Ragnarok) in a market that keeps spitting out games that are just saturating their own genres.

How do you guys honestly feel about this game? Does anyone feel the same way that I do? I believe that if IMC just relaunched the entire game with most of the fixes done with possibly some more content and a much better program security integration, it may just bring back all the players that enjoyed this game thoroughly.

I really love this game and it does deserve more than I can say.

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muh ragnarok
muh relaunch
muh i want to start from scratch

just do it then?

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A relaunch like that would leave a lot of pissed whales, that would probably put the last nail on the coffin

I hated RO too and I quit it a number of times, but then I always came back. Same â– â– â– â–  with this piece of crap.

I just can’t understand how they can be so brilliant in one things and at the same time, ■■■■ up so easily in other things.

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I’ve been playing about a year with no breaks.

It’s honestly disappointing to see how drastically the population has dropped in the last few months. The game itself is very beautiful and it has a lot to offer with its class system but unfortunately it’s also lacking in a lot of content areas. The game is too easy now, there’s little to no challenge. PVP is dead and it can take ages to get matches. People are quitting daily.

I can honestly say I don’t feel positive for the games future. It needs major improvements to draw in and retain players and it appears that there is no effort or desire to do it.

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I have similar feelings towards the game as well… I fell in love with it immediately and it’s a truly charming game with tons to explore and discover. My fondest memories are from before all the dungeon and exp changes, back when you actually had to quest through all the maps and explore them, and I think the game have massively suffered by trying to speed players through to higher ranks. There was so much to do before, farming for gear and materials and discovering gimmicks and secrets along the way, some of which still haven’t been fully solved to this day. You could grind or quest to your heart’s content without feeling like you’re falling behind by putting effort into such things. The game was and should be about the experience of the journey, not jumping straight to “endgame” (especially when it’s so painfully obvious that ToS’s endgame is lacking).

The game came out of beta too soon, that much is obvious from how buggy it was back then and the massive combat system changes and class revamps we’ve undergone over the years. I think it still has huge potential, but it’s going to take a lot for the game to not only regain the trust of the playerbase its lost, but to find its purpose again and stop trying to turn itself into a generic modern-style MMO. Maybe it’s risky to try to be different in any market, but ToS was originally designed and marketed to be nostalgic, so in trying to become more like modern MMOs with handholding and focus on the endgame it’s just going to fail at both. It really bums me out every time I run into new players that find themselves forced to skip huge swathes of the game because of how fast levelling is now, especially with events taken into account…

I’d love to see the game succeed, but it’s hard to say what’s in its future. Is kToS doing better these days? Perhaps iToS might continue to decline, but if kToS can succeed there’s still hope in either IMC deciding to drag iToS along until the game finally hits its stride or everyone just moving to kToS/jToS.

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A long time ago this game was full of mysterys some wierd gimicks on some maps and many many maps to explore.
It was hard sometimes.

Now you just skip all the beatifull maps and rush to maxlvl to find out theres nothing to do.

Pvp is a joke.
Et is just a daily chore.
And farming blessed shards feels like a pain in the a**.

All you can do is start another char and lvl up again … untill you bored and take another break from this game…

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Admit it, you guys who still play this game know this yet still doing it and will keep doing it, no?

Addicted

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it’s funny when you talk with newcomers to the game cuz they always say things like “hey, I’m 330, just started yesterday, you know how to get to dg 290?” or things like that,you know? In my opinion this is just ridiculous, but I don’t blame them, it’s all IMCs fault, I remember back then before rank 8 was implemented, this game was a reall mmorpg, you actually needed to struggle to reach rank 7, the exp cards were sooooooo important, people even kept low level cards to use in higher levels lol, now you don’t evem need these at all, I remember first time I went to dg 50, it was HELL! even with 5 people it was very hard and it was normal to see people broadcasting asking for a healer, hahahah, nowadays all you need is to buff yourself with a pardoner’s blessing and voilá, you can solo all your way till lv 100~110… what’s going on IMC? lol, the game is just too easy now and people don’t even know how they get max level so fast, everything is just pathetic and meaningless now.

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i think they should keep levling easy, but make end game harder becuase with so many builds, it would be hard to make leveling easier/harder because you have classews like sr saying “levleing and grinding is so easy” then full support builds with 1-3 attack skills and making leveling harder will just make them quit

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Yeah, they hit a really nice balance between “too grindy and irritating” and “too easy and boring” when the Orsha maps and exploration/monster kill cards were added, especially since exploration/kill cards were shared by the team along with the team lv exp bonus so each subsequent alt would be easier to level. But events giving out nonstop exp boosts that give you over 1000% exp rate in dungeons is ridiculous, plus the instant clears and multipliers so you don’t even have to run the dungeon to jump wildly far ahead.

Honestly? Speaking as a player who’s been here since beta and likes being able to speedlevel alts, I think choosing to cater to that crowd was a mistake because it destroyed the early game and made the whole game seem like a boring waste to new players. No wonder we can’t get a lot of new blood when they’re already lv330 in a day.

Even if it meant spending days/weeks getting new characters up to r8, I’d rather have a healthy game environment than speedy levelling so I can run the same boring endgame dailies in dead instance queues.

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the game’s campaign is only good for about 2 to 3 playthroughs imo… after that, the campaign becomes old and boring because we already know the story and we’ve already seen the maps… we’ve already unfolded the mystery of the game and there’s no point in going through all of that again and again and again every time we make a new character…

at least now we have the choice to play the game’s campaign if we want to… or we could just rush to the end game…

this is a win-win solution for everyone…

btw, a long time ago (before rank 8) this game had a huge exp gain discrepancy from lv 200+ to 260+ and the monsters stats weren’t adjusted properly… we were forced to party grind from alemeth, evac, storage and maven just to get to Lv 270… the overall leveling experience at the time was terribad…

the game is in a much better state now than before…

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Honestly what made me stayed is the community , namely varena Discord and my guild . I was never a fan of mmorpg and I was going through a rough patch around a year back. Decided to try it out and here I am , met new people.

The game is developing at a slow pace which might fail to appease some players’ demand for new Content. Bugs and slow response from support team is a norm. It feels like many players are trying to sprint in this game which I believe kills their motivation or love for the game . I treat ToS as a journey and not a sprint.

Prior to bottlenecking myself on upgrades and equipment , i find myself farming / grinding a lot to generate revenue. But now I log on to do ET with my guildies and I treat each session as a meet up online to hang out together. If I had more time I would prolly dwell myself in TBL or generate more video content for this game. It’s kinda sad to see players from your community go as well

Regarding the game itself , IMC has diluted the stereotypical Korean hardcore Grindy genre ( in all aspects ) into a casual -pick up for new players. Indeed it is really easy to level up as compared to before. Players are only required to go extra grindy should they pursue strong end game presence be it in TBL or competitive world bossing. I kinda missed how people used to party up to grind or clear important quests together. The design story mode has become sort of a single -player campaign for One to sit through to unlock stat points or warp points. Drop rates have also been adjusted in a sense that there is no competition for drops. What was deem extremely hardcore to craft is deem feasible now. 57 pieces 550 dpk materials for a single weapon was pretty hard and it’s prestige to own one would either label you no life or simply a whale . Nowadays you would see them everywhere and what differ hardcore from casual was simply the amount of transcendence and enhancement values. The old school grind/farmer player are slowly starting to go extinct as many new players / whales tend to have this habit of trying to buy everything they want with silver.

Sometimes I secretly laugh at these shouts because the farmer: whale ratio is ridiculously unbalanced at the moment . If you a whale is reading this , do understand that in tos not everything can be purchased with reasonable amount of silver unless you are willing to pay literally a whale for it

The community is still alive and I can say some of them are in hibernation mode. With statistics taken from both my guild and discord I have seen an entire guild quitting the game. They have sold off all the equipment and the remnants have integrated into existing guilds.I do see new players joining the discord time to time and sometimes in droves. ( maybe friends ) Majority of the hardcore players are still in game but some of them are in hibernation mode and waiting for rank 9. As for my guild which is really small (30 + ) , about 4-5 key members have left the game but the numbers have been covered by new but equally dedicated players.

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So… I read some of your comments, and here are my questions:

How is this game too easy to level up? I don’t find leveling speed too fast without tokens and exp tomes (even with them still takes quite some time from rank 6 and after) Especially since there are tons of classes to try out, I definitely wish we can level up faster…

Is population really that low? I do see a lot of people in town. Even if they are AFK shop, they are still players no? Queueing for dungeon/mission is a pain, no doubt, but during peak hours you can still find parties most of the time. Forum seems to be very active too, people responding to questions within hours. All other games I’ve played/seen respond after 2 or 3 days or never.

Do you think the game is closing down? Obviously no one has the answer to this, I’m just asking for thoughts. I’ve seen games less popular and older than this one but still not closed down. And tbh, I don’t see alot of glitches in PvE content. What is the problem in this game people are so frustrated about?

Think ppl are frustrated about the inconsistency of IMC patches . I received information of how pd’s pandemic was broken in some maps after yesterday patch.

What frustrates players further is IMC lack of communication with the players about the bugs as well as the turtle pace. Complacence from IMC is another key factor for this grumpy community
. Eg, casually saying PD lack of spread is intended after multiple failed attempts at fixing the the old pandemic bug. It was spreading black steam death through diev’s statues /ice wall to the caster’s own party which is extremely disastrous in ET ( not pvp )

It’s the early levelling that’s the problem, IMO. You’re right that it slows down a lot more at higher levels past 200, and if you don’t use tomes and the like to speed up your levelling it’s a little more relaxed. But they give out 8x tomes and other exp boosters (goddess statues, miracle seeds, fortune cookies, those new savior’s tomes…) in such a high frequency you can’t just ignore them. It has to be considered as a part of the game’s overall exp rate. Not to mention these rewards are often given to new players specifically. It would make more sense to give these rewards to returning/experienced players, but newbies shouldn’t be shooting up in levels that fast.

I think it should be possible to reach a healthy balance. Levelling should be a normal, slow speed on your first character, but you should have more options to go faster and faster with each new alt. Like how team level exp bonus works, except lower the overall exp gain speed and buff team exp by a lot to compensate. Hell, that’d even give players more motivation to make more alts if their overall levelling speed increases that much more each time.

As for the population, though, it really is dangerously low. Only a year ago I’d always see at least 30+ people in mission queues and it was possible to just enter queue on any level 100+ and get a full party, even if you might have to wait awhile for it to fill up. You’d be waiting maybe 15 minutes at worst, and you could always megaphone to get more people to fill the queue up if it was close. Dungeons were a little more slow since there’s a lot of them and they’re scattered around, but it was normal to go into a dungeon queue and find maybe 1~2 other people already waiting, then mega to get more to come in. All the queues were a bit of a pain since that was before the match 2 to 4 option was added, but it was never a situation where you’d see yourself alone in queue and immediately have to give up or start begging just for a 2-person run.

In its current state, I’ve yet to see the missions queue go over 10 people. Sometimes I go in and it’s literally just me, the only person queuing in both Klai and Orsha servers from lv100~330. That’s a huge difference and not in a good way. Dungeons are almost always completely empty unless someone uses a mega to try and get more, and even then there’s no guarantee anyone will come.

We also have the economy, which I feel has taken a huge hit from the boosted exp rates as well. See, there are a lot of very useful items and gear, or rare and desirable cosmetics, that can only be farmed or found in these low level maps that everyone skips through now. So all these items that were previously fairly easy to find for purchase are just… nowhere. You can’t even buy some things because no one has bothered to get them to sell. And, of course, the fact that the population has declined massively also means that everything is more scarce because fewer people are playing and farming items to sell. Even if you wanted to try and take advantage of that to profit by farming these uncommon items for sale, how do you know someone is even going to want to buy it? It’s a waste of time when there are more consistent ways to get silver in the game.

Is the game closing down, though? Despite what I’m sure a bunch of people are going to say, no, it’s not closing down yet. It’s absolutely in trouble though, and if it stays on this decline it’s not going to be pretty. It takes a lot to truly kill an MMO, as you’ve seen yourself in other games, and since IMC is the publisher for the international servers themselves I don’t think it’s at as huge a risk as it would be if a different company were publishing it. The game isn’t at risk of closing down right now, but that doesn’t mean we can just ignore the problems and expect them to go away. The game will die if the population continues to bleed like this.

I think it’s still possible for them to find a way to pull the game back out of this if they truly put in the effort to fix the game’s issues and bring in new players who fit the game’s target audience, but it’s going to be a very difficult uphill battle. It’s not going to work if they keep applying these bandaid fixes that end up causing more problems.

wow i wrote a lot sry for words

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I still play the game from time to time. Though, not that often since I’m in graduate school.

I enjoy playing this game. I even made the effort to improve its Wikipedia page to encourage more people to play it (Yeah, I made most of the content on that page).

Though, I’m still salty with what they did with Sage. :expressionless:

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First of all, i’m also a Ragnarok long time players, replay and quit casually for many times in official/private servers (mostly enjoy the old school music and ambiance). RO have its own problem with too gears dependent where you need massive grinding or botting for end game, its core system is about elemental/race table, where you need different element/cards/arrow/skills to go for different maps and fight different bosses, not to mention broken hp/sp or yggdrasil spamming.

There are a lot changes in ToS since combat changes, they are also revamp every system 1 by 1, which mostly are good things.
However, since then, it just feel something has not changed or really improved, it is the random bugs, random lags, channel crashing. Maybe it is just the game engine or legacy bad coding. (Maybe this is also 1 of the main factor it killed its own pvp/tbl/gvg feature which dropped lot of players)
And the combat is becoming DPS-fest and too linear, mobs and bosses are slow, stupid and not dynamic, players are all aiming T10 weapon with best build to 1-2 hits everything.
In RO, some mobs/bosses move and hit really fast and you can recognize their characteristics and scare of them, but in ToS basically all mobs/bosses look same and you won’t really remember them.

But I can’t expect much for a MMO game, it definitely drops over time, nowadays there are too many options either in Mobile/PC/Console. You can see Steam Charts are mostly from MOBA category, and most MMO have falling trends. Bless Shards and Transcendence farming are still login bait to keep at the moment

That’s why from the beginning I advised them to boost the exp of people who had several characters (kind of like the event they’ve had on kTOS: get a character to R8, and you can get another new character to R6, I think).
Because when you’ve already leveled 2, 3 or more characters to R7/R8, doing it again for every characters you make is just an annoying chore. But the new players need to level the normal way in order to explore and understand the game, and not miss out on everything. Although if they wish to, they can still find ways to rush it by being pleveled and such. But right now they reach 290-330 without even being able to buy from the market. It’s pretty ridiculous.
Maybe it wouldn’t be such an issue if the game “started” once you’re 290-330, but there’s no end-game content, so it makes it stupider.

Anyway, personally I don’t expect much from TOS/IMC at this point. Great ideas, great art, great music, but not enough people working on it, not good enough, bad direction, or whatever.
To be honest a lot of the time it feels like the devs haven’t been playing MMOs for years and don’t really know what they should do, how MMOs work anymore (like how at the beginning you couldn’t trade… seriously ?).
I still enjoy knowing about the classes/skills and the story, but that’s about it. When there were more people, you logged to have fun with them, chat, try out new things. But now that everything is so easy and so many players have quit, it’s basically a solo game and I don’t see the point of it. I play a MMO to play with people, not to be solo. And anyway, in terms of solo game I’d rather use my gaming time to play Fire Emblem or other fun/interesting/challenging RPGs, TOS isn’t one of them.

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They can always open a fresh server, however this game’s main problem lies with imc having a reputaion of a shitty, untrustworthy and incompetent company.

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