Tree of Savior Forum

AH restrictions conflict with basic principles of economics

Veteran MMO player here (over 10 years), in all games I’m most interested in trading - that’s how I play and how I enjoy playing MMO.

For the problems ToS has from my perspective (not economist, just huge experience in this field).

AH can’t handle supply & demand variety

Example: average item price is 6-8k, AH only lets you set a piece for 4-9k. One day, all pieces for 6-8k got sold, and the lowest piece becomes 12k. But you can’t set your piece for anything higher than 10k still.

When demand rises and supply can’t catch up, the market price goes up. It can go up and down overnight (happens in WoW frequently), or it can go up gradually. Those price changes is nearly the only way to make money for a person who doesn’t have a huge budget to maintain long term trading (see next point).

AH restrictions prevent you from maintaining a big business

If you have a budget of 10kk and you want to invest into some resource or gear and expect the income of ~30% over, say, a month; for that you have to be able to set at least 10 pieces at a time, but the more the better.

There were times in WoW when I had some big business going on and I always had over 500 pieces set up on the AH at any time, for about 2 months in a row. That’s big, but not the biggest - some people reach the 1000 pieces marks or even more.

Being able to set so many pieces opens other aspects of economics as well - monopoly, competitiveness, currency conversion (one piece type into another, not only money <-> pieces), and some other. This is a very interesting and fun part of the gameplay, and ToS doesn’t have it at all.

AH restrictions prevent rapid trading

You have to wait 24 hours to get your money back, therefore, if you don’t have a big budget, you can’t benefit from rapid trades. But if you have a big budget, you wouldn’t do that anyway.

Rapid trades is something that you’re rewarded for if you monitor AH very actively when the economy is not stable enough yet.

For example, somebody who is lazy about trading puts his weapon 40% cheaper than the other pieces, and if you can spot that, you can buy it and resell it quite quickly (usually the same day).

But then you’re delayed for 2 days - you can’t get your money back and you have to wait. Considering that usually you can maintain ~10 deals/day with rapid trading, you lose incredible amount of money, and, possibly, time, since your character will have so few money to play with.

Question

Why do we, who enjoy trading so much, have to suffer those restrictions just because you decided that it’s easier to control economy (it isn’t) than it is to fix the security issues that your game has, to prevent botting?

Even if we allow botting and release all the restrictions to the AH and trading for all accounts, the damage that will be done by gold sellers will not be as significant as the damage done by the restrictions that you set up. This is self-destructive for economy and for a good portion of players, who likes to trade.

Dude I like your 2 essay complains.

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Capitalism isn’t the only economic system that exists.

While I can’t say I’m completely satisfied with the current system, I think it is worth a try if the price ranges for items actually (eventually) work properly. It really emphasizes the value of moral dessert - where you only “own” what you have “earned.”

It’s still possible to flip items in the current economy, but you actually need to “add value” to things. IE: Buy a recipe and ingredients–> craft item–> sell for greater than break even point. You’ll just need a few more columns on your spreadsheet to keep track of this.

The range is actually enormous, it’s not ‘item price is 6-8k so you can only list for 4-9k’, it’s more like ‘item price is 6-8k so you can list for 1k to 50k’. The only problem is actually the price fixing on items that should be cheap like dilgele and low level monster drops are set obnoxiously high because those are being used by gold sellers to transfer funds.

Oh, and the fact that items with variable attributes are all fixed at the same price as a vanilla version, so a cheap hat with perfect enchants can’t be sold on the AH, nor can equipment slotted with high level gems/monster gems or with a perfect awakening.

Edit: Although I can agree that the delay on getting your silver is pointless. Why is it there? So if they see someone suspected of buying silver they can stop them from getting that silver? Shouldn’t they just be banned?

Guys just chill out, this game is gonna die, imc will get bankrupt someone will make a private server and get ■■■■ tons of money because of imc stupidity, just give it the proper time.

Not to mention Potential loss. Ugh! If only potential will be loss the moment you equp it rather than by jst buying it. It could’ve been another story.

The economic system you desire will have negative side effects to the current style of this game. The system they have implemented has flaws, but is honestly one of the better ways of creating a sustainable and fair market place. “Big businesses” usually end up becoming large scale monopolies (since people can’t help but to take advantage of situations) and doesn’t benefit the overall population. I love the time restrictions on silver (though I wish they could be 24h max). Look at a game like ArcheAge and its free market and see how less than 1% (half of which are bots auto buying materials) of the people using AH control 99% of the currency going in and out.

I should not have to wait over a day of real time to get 2k gold, in attempt to get more for my buck, rather than sell it all to an npc for next to nothing. Even with the token, the waiting period to make use of the market is not worth the effort.