Tree of Savior Forum

Advice on Helm chopper or cleave

Class and Rank Swordsman
#1

which one should i max? i’m going sw>pel>barb2>corsai2>shinobi. the max lv will be 10. thanks guys.

#2

Are you taking Frienzy or something, why not max both? If you have to max one or the otger, I’d go for Cleave.

#3

yes i can only max one to lv 10, i will get frienzy and warcry.

helm chopper lv 10:
Attack: 1030
Attribute Damage: 0%
AoE Attack Ratio: 3

vs

cleave lv 10:

Attack: 974
Attribute Damage: 0%
Critical Rate: +50
AoE Attack Ratio: 3

i don’t see any attribute to increase the critical rate, it looks like helm chopper is better.

#4

Remember that Cleave does double the damage on stunned targets.

1 Like
#5

Cleave

Helm chopper is used for stun mostly. It’s hard to fit it in to a normal rotation. Whereas cleave is always useful because of the critical rate buff and other buffs it has in KR if we ever get those

1 Like
#6

you are right guys thank you both.

#7

Helm Chopper.

  • Higher base damage than cleave.
  • Hits twice - it does over twice the damage of cleave when the enemy is not stunned.
  • Bosses cant be stunned. And stun chance on normal enemies is not 100%. Meaning that cleave 150% extra damage does not happen as often as you think.
  • Helm Chopper is strike skill, which covers slash’s weakness vs plate armor. Barb and Doppel has a lot of slash skills, but very little strike skills.

But you should be maxing both and skip frenzy instead.

#8

Actually SoDed has a point.

I don’t agree with maxing helm chopper over cleave mainly because additional skill damage is so negligible, but you’re only going barb 2. I don’t find frenzy to be any good (and it’s only marginally good) unless you have the retain stacks attribute which requires barb 3.

#9

The damage of Helm Chopper over Cleave is not negligible though.

Lvl 10 Cleave hits once for 974 + physical attack, while Lvl 10 Helm Chopper hits twice: (1030 + physical attack) x2

#10

My issue with helm chopper is it’s not optimal to use in your regular DPS rotation. Cleave normally wouldn’t be either once you reach higher levels, but it gives the crit buff. WIth corsair 2 you’re likely better off using DWA for filler DPS if you need it instead of something like helm chopper (assuming you have decent ping)

Just for the sake of doing it, here’s the difference between lv 1 and 10 helm chopper (per hit) for someone with pretty high end gear and level 50 attribute.

level 1:

level 10:

So for 9 points you get an extra 2,241 damage every 24 seconds.

edit: 4,482 because helm chopper has overheat of 2, oops!

I mean, it’s not exactly low, but from a DPS standpoint especially on something like a boss, it isn’t very high either

#11

at higher lvls and class ranks as content gets added, you will use cleave in rotation due to the buff on kToS for slash damage and 3 overheat and the present crit rate attribute buff. this is unlikely for helm chopper as we will get more skills. also cleave has a wider attack frame than helm chopper allowing a higher chance to hit its ratio of targets in aoe if they arent as bunched up.

also, i read somewhere that the stun modifier on cleave is +150% not just 150%. this makes it hit for higher and when you factor in critical damage, its much much higher (havent paid attention at 202 but at lower lvls, I have been seeing 1.3k x2 for helm and crit/stun cleaves hit for 7-9k. lvl 5 helm lvl 10 cleave)

small-moderate damage difference now, likely dead pts later for helm chopper.

#12

My build is similar to yours (Fencer instead of Shinobi) and I took both to lv.10. I have 5 left over points because I don’t like Frenzy nor Warcry. I’m saving them in case I get Barb3 once we have rank 8 (unlikely though – I’ll just spend them once I feel like spending them).