Tree of Savior Forum

About Rank updates and level cap updates

Gameplay Feedback Features
#1

I can understand that the current Rank updates and content updates are still combined because the old Rank 8 Classes were not completely conceptualized when they were introduced (in contrast to the newly introduced Rank 8 Classes).

That’s why I want to leave this feedback here for the people from the Staff and the developers considering how to handle the updates in the future. The reason behind this is simple.

You give us new content (i.e. new Classes) aside from Rank updates, which we in turn can’t use because we are already capped out. It’s nice to recieve Rank Reset vouchers so we can change existing characters to the new Classes if we like them, but this shouldn’t really be the focus of gameplay.
It rather feels like bandwagoning to a new meta Class rather than progressing/adding to possible build options.

That’s why I propose that after the Rank 10 patch and onwards,

Rank updates and level cap updates should be separate updates.

Not only do the Rank updates not call for new balancing content after limiting the power creep to end at Rank 8,
it also takes a long time to get to Class level 15 now, which improves the longevity of old content [i.e. you have something to do aside farming gear&silver];

You also can use this to cover the time between the level caps by rotating content updates [e.g. content update>new Class>new Rank>content update>level cap increase>content update>new Class>etc.] and alternatingly level caps and Rank updates so players overcome the reallllly long lean time between significant updates that don’t introduce just more farming content [which doesn’t really feel like progressing anywhere].

The best thing is still the possibility of implementing new Classes into your builds as soon as possible.

Having nothing to do aside from repetitive farming [Saalus,Demon Lords,raids, Earth Tower, Hunting Grounds] is one of the things that lead to the heavy player loss after all.

Noone likes seeing a new cool Class that only exists for the ones willing to give up their last 1-2 Ranks and/or create a new character, while your loyal players that like the other,old Classes don’t get anything out of the content released (aside from the reset vouchers that can be used to reset away unliked skills/attributes) because they can’t advance yet [even if they are already Class level 15…].

This problem will only get worse at Rank 10 when all Classes are already released with all 3 Circles available, so you can see all attributes&abilities but can’t advance further than C1 without resetting away another Class.

This makes waiting for new Ranks feel like eternity. I doubt people are going to wait ~ a year for every Circle of a Class, at some point they will simply quit and move on if you make them wait unnecessarily.

That’s why it’s in everyones best interest if Rank and level cap updates are separated,
so players can progress into the Classes you release and advance through them faster without the need to reset every Rank into a new meta.

Thank you for reading and understanding :slight_smile:

1 Like
#2

I really doubt that this change would make people stay into the game tbh, the main problems aren’t exactly the ones you pointed out at least.

The issue most players have right now with the game are:

  • Optimization (Client and Server) - No one have anymore patience to deal with VGA errors, freezes, stutterings, random massive lag and random disconnections.

  • Lack of security - We don’t have an anti-hack/bot system, we are infested by bots and GS, we don’t have active GMs to patrol the game in timely intervals during the day.

  • Lack of communication - In-game and here at the forums, we barely have any interaction with the staff, they generally come answering with a copy and past answer/solution(?), the same happens in the ticket system.

  • Lack of actual content - While is good to have new classes and Lv cap increase, we don’t have actual content, most players only log to do the same chores every single day: dungeon, Saalus, Merc Quests maybe WBs and Raid and just check on market.

  • Properly bug/exploit/glitch fixes - We still face many issues from the CBT stage, new stuff appears every new patch is applied, they don’t have a quality control check in their patches and the game is broken left and right.

If the above aren’t “fixed” I really doubt this game will survive longer, I know they want to reach the Lv cap proposed (500) soon, but the way they are doing is the wrong one, that is, if they are really serious about this project, but at this point in time, imo, they are just joking around and grabbing the max money they can till this end.

I don’t have any faith in IMC anymore, not only me but many others too, and specially the people who came from the same time as me (1st CBT) and even before who where accompanying the project since it was announced.

6 Likes
#3

I want to have all the new classes in my build, without having to change my build: The post

4 Likes
#4

I stated that future updates post Rank 10 should focus rotating updates like Rank increase , content patches, new Classes and level cap increase updates so the waiting time between each update feels less.
I know that there is no content to do, but if we can at least level 1 more Rank every now and then it still feels less boring and repetitive than currently.

You have to agree that sitting at base&Class cap after a few weeks is way more boring than sitting at max baselevel for about 4-6 months, then recieving a Rank update so you can Rank up all your characters so you have something to do for the next few weeks/months while IMC has more air to develope more content (as a separate Rank increase update doesn’t require anything except increasing the Rank count by one, it is viable to level with the old/current cap maps&monsters) while “waiting” for the next base cap update.

Leveling your Base level and Class level together might seem to be a good startegy at first, but it just makes playing more boring if all you have is either unrewarding and/or repetitive iteration of said things/modes.

Rank updates require the least investment of all (you don’t even need to introduce new Classes) but give the players something to do.

I encourage IMC to introduce more content, but we can’t expect anything good fast and bugfree, so giving the players something to do while IMC developes with minimum ressource investment seems to be the best solution, given the way IMC currently works&addresses problems.

#5

I’m not disagreeing with you, but I also know they won’t move a finger to do what we suggest.

We’ve been suggesting things since CBT stages, I didn’t saw anything implemented, the only thing I’ve seem that they took from community was the item drop effect from an add-on.

I’m not asking for anything faster, I think many think like me, we want something with quality.

IMC addressing issues? I wonder about that, if it’s related to Cash Shop they will do their all to address it in a few days, who want to lose money right?

This game is far from good to be in a Release stage, this game is far from good to be in a CBT stage imho.

I won’t put all the blame on the dev team tbh, because if the owner, the president and the higher ups from the company are complacent with the current situation, then it’s more than clear to me that they don’t give a ■■■■ as long as the game still provide some profit.

I’m tired of banging my head in a wall trying to suggest good stuff, many are too, and many gave really good suggestions to make this game a huge success, even more than RO and might even reach the same or a bit better than PoE in success.

But they don’t care…

I honestly do pray that they wake up from whatever dream they are thinking on make this game, actually, it looks like more like a nightmare than a dream with all the issues I pointed up + yours + hundreds of others made during these 2+ years that are probably forgotten in the limbo right now.

It’s a shame, a good project being thrown in the mud like this, I fell in love with this game at first sight, like many, I even went as far as to buy a Founders Pack, it was a gamble, and a bad one in the end. But it came as a good thing, now I won’t fall pray from Founders Pack or EAs paid accesses.

I do hope your voice is heard by them, and sorry if I sound like a doom poster, but it’s my experience with this company/staff/dev team or whoever else is behind the game.

I will leave your post now. Good luck there.

1 Like
#6

I agree that something must be made about the rank system, but I think most issues are related to contradictory game-design choices. A small change like that will not solve anything regarding player base.

The first thing to notice is that the main feature of the game is its great ammount of classes choices and combinations. But its also the game’s biggest failure. On release, a lot of people spent 3 or 4 weeks leveling their main character to reach the coveted rank 7, only to discover that their choice of build was weak or even a complete garbage. You can’t expect that players will just create a new character to fix a mistake was not even their fault. Of course a lot of people just abandoned the game.

In order to soften this issue, after some time developers decided to create exp bonuses and events, so players could easily get a new character to max rank. But instead of solving the main issue, you are now creating a new one. People are skipping most of the game content. Leveling, exploring, reading the story, doing the quests, the gimmicks, the art and soundtrack of each map, it’s all part of the game experience. You are making people directly into the end-game in a few days. Of course the content will not be enough.

Ok, but that’s only half the issues. Today, if I want to create a new character I need to buy a character slot with TP/Cash. That makes sense and is totally fine, because I pay for a service, which is good for the company, and I’m allowed to try a new build, because that’s the most fun part of this game: testing and discovering different builds.

And that’s where another problem appears: everytime I create a new character, I feel like I’m running in circles and not going anywhere. The infinite grind is all used to invest into a single character that suddenly is not my main anymore. Attribute points are not account-wide, gems can’t be removed from other weapons without penalty, it’s expensive to get a weapon Transcended and on top of that, there’s the RNG with refines and stats. You are dependent of silver and grind in order to equip a new character, and not some sort of progression or even luck, like you have on other sucessful mmorpgs. You can’t equip all your characters equally because the ammount of grind needed is insane.

And talking about progression, new content should be something about a personal progression to achieve something with your character, and not a new set of dailies to grind. Also, they should remove the excessive ammount of exp bonuses, specially to new accounts. With Pardoner buffs and balance changes since release, we can already kill things much faster to level up.

And about the class system, I think the ranks should be treated more like talents, where you could easily change and reset, instead of permanent classes choices. Yes, we have rank reset options today, but it’s not enough. There’s a large ammount of hidden interactions, differences on skill animations and most skill descriptions are not clear. You can’t just follow random builds on internet. Most are outdated or created with personal choices. The game wants players to test and discover new builds, but the same game punishes players attempting this. If they want to expand the playerbase, I would start by rethinking the mechanics related to the rank system and how players could change and reset their ranks and skills when needed/desired.

#7

I understand all your sentiments.

I know that a lot of things went wrong with this game and IMC is not fixing or only attempting to fix the problems.

However, my purpose of suggesting this as a game feedback (and not a suggestion) is because the game is unnecessarily repetitive and boring.

Every day it gets harder to log in just to do your daily Saalus and on weekends your daily quests for attribute points.
It’s boring and gets even more boring every day.
Sure, I could explore&quest, but that doesn’t even progress anywhere.
Progression in this game is inevitably bound to grinding.

And I don’t particularly hate grinding (I’m a RO player).
However, the way grinding is organized here is just gruesome, especially the random stat weapons.
Why do I have to grind a million times longer to get both a good subweapon/shield and a onehanded weapon than a twohanded weapon? And why are the primus drop rates so bad?
These drop rates call for 20 times the monsters on the maps, and about 30-50 aggro limit so you can actually mob and kill enough monsters to get the items fast enough. Mostly it’s just blue stuff, and not even the equipment I need.
It would be better to just farm materials and get random stats on crafting gear.

But, back on topic.

The reason why I made this kind of feedback is because I want the game to bring out Rank updates faster.

Rank updates are not bound to new equipment tiers anymore, since all Classes are capped at max Rank 8 for their power level.
Monsters do not need to become stronger just to be killed by Rank 8 skills than they currently are, unless the balance is still off. And monsters do provide enough Class Experience points to last through another Rank update.

Rank updates also allow players to advance through Classes faster, sinking more silver into attributes, and providing more build options without breaking the game.

But the greatest advantage of Rank updates is the fact that they are easy and fast to implement, because you simply need to increase the Rank by one and implement the new EXP table for said new Rank.
That’s all.

However,by doing this, players can grind their new Class levels, try and create new build options, have access to newly-released Classes and still enjoy their “old characters” that they carried through all the content&levels.

Given the time it takes for IMC to release a new cap and new content, this would help a lot of people (me included) to not feel bored as I’d have to grind Class levels & silver to buy new attributes rather than being stuck with a maxed-out character for over half a year(Rank 8 -> Rank 9 took even more than a whole year).

There would be the feeling of progress that you’re missing for the majority of playtime where the only progress you make is grinding more&better equipment just to fail at enhancing or identification,thus repeating the cycle until the new cap makes your equipment worthless again.

1 Like
#8

Top 5 IMC Support ticket replies.

Jk, before any updates, I really wish they make a new dungeon or too past lvl 300 dungeon. In all seriousness, I really wish IMC gives their thoughts about rank updates and level caps very soon, seeing they have a platform via ToS magazine to convey it.

#9

Um…

4 Likes
#10

That’s about the Classes introduced separately, not the Ranks being introduced separately.
It already happened with Onmyouji, Retiarius, Exorcist and Pied Piper.

This is because, in future rank updates, our goal is to start introducing one new class each time. Aside from that, we’re also updating maximum level expansions and new high-level content independently from new ranks.

I guess this is the thing you wanted to quote. Yes, they stated it here. But IMC also stated to consider things like casting time and skill duration into damage calculation. Guess what they didn’t consider after stating this?

The main reason why I post this is because currently it’s already looking like they are aiming to bring levelcap and Rank update together again.
They already released the last real content for the current cap (i.e. the legendary equipment Velcoffer raid), meaning that there will be no more specific 350 content after this [maybe new dungeons/modes to farm the announced accessories with patk/matk as main stats],
because otherwise it’d have to be either better than the current content [making challenge/raid useless] or provide other, more isignificant spoils.

Given we have those 4 new Classes released, it’s due to Rank up so the players have something to do(the players in Korea already waiting way over 6 months with nothing in sight/teased/announced).

It’s nice that they are revising Classes and old content, but is there a need to keep Ranking up delayed any longer given that they just need to make a simple change to the game?
Maybe they’re trying to cover the summer-dead calm with a Rank increase?
But when will it come to iTOS then? Halfway to winter?..

#11

Umm yes there is. Infact I’d much rather them have rank updates less often than level cap updates personally.
Now that new classes are introduced to rank 8 they don’t need to rank update alongside new classes.
Rank updates majorly shift the balance of the game each and every single time. That means they should not be done often and without a lot thought going into it.

I mean I do want rank 10 to come relatively soon but it’s the last circle for a lot of classes now. That means they should take all the time they need to properly prepare for it so they don’t need to start reworking right after release.
There’s things like considering what to do for those builds who didn’t choose rank8 class early to get the c3 when rank10 comes. Perhaps it’s the time to introduce master classes for that reason?

You’re gravely mistaken if you assume a rank update will ever be a simple change.

#12

It is a simple change. And as I’m talking about changes after Rank 10, not before it, all your worries are in vain. The balance doesn’t really shift that much by choosing C3 of a Rank 8 Class, most Classes will just get more damage and 1 new skill, maybe along with some new attributes.

As long as IMC doesn’t mess up with this and make more broken changes like that Lancers Quintainn attribute that makes the skill hit three times out of nowhere, the balance won’t shift much,
broken Classes will still be broken and weak Classes will most likely stay underwhelming.

From what comes at Rank 11, the Rank where a lot of people will go into a second Rank 8 Class, is also not a problem, since that will likely come after the next basecap increase, so as long as that update is proper (i.e. adjusted difficulty so that not every mob is a sponge but rather a dangerous being that actually debuffs/weakens& damages you for like 20000 damage per hit so block and evasion are useful for once) there will be less powercreep than before.

While we’re at powercreep, the limit of shortcuts and the CD and execution of skills will lead to a stable decline in using certain skills that will be replaced by new ones for a new rotation.
I don’t see much of a problem yet, given that many Swordsman,Archer and Cleric Classes are highly specialized by either attack mode and/or weapon type.

The one problem I see is that Wizard will become too strong after the recent buffs.
Not only is Featherfoot pretty strong, it goes well with nearly every build, especially Shadowmancer&Warlock, and the high damage boost of Elementalist basically promoted a high burst build option that will grow stronger throughout the Ranks.
It’s nice that Enchanter and Onmyouji are are little more down-to-earth, but it certainly won’t stop people from stacking the stronger R7 and R8 Classes for more & easier damage.

#13

It’s really not. I’m not talking about solely rank 10 either but it’s definitely the biggest rank update left.
Anyways the thing is, not every build is going to build go for a rank 8 c3 as it’s not possible for them. The same will still apply at rank11. Only at rank 12 will all builds be able to go for rank 8 c3.

Because of this reason it’s not a simple decision to just add it. They really need to consider the balance of the game. How some class builds combine and whether some classes will be left behind or not.

Ultimately a rank 6 c3 going into rank 8 c3 at rank 12 will have to be able to compare to a rank8 c3 going into rank 8 c2. But what about the ranks between?
I’m also sure you’re very aware in what manner they’ve been addressing rank 8 classes 3rd circle skills. It’s at least in my opinion for the sake of balance very important that it’s not absolutely necessary to have it. Considering builds like mentioned before that want to take c3 from rank 6, or rank 7 which has it even worse.

There’s not only one of doing this however but they really need to consider how to do it in the best way.

One way is to end rank updates to rank 10 for example. And balance the power of rank 6/7 in a manner which will give them enough power to combat rank c3’s with some additional class choices.
Honestly one possible way is to upgrade the game to rank 12 straight up to open the possibility for all builds to have rank 8 c3. This can however be really messy to implement straight up from rank 9.
Then there’s the periodic update but it’s not very wise to just do ‘‘simple change’’ from time to time cause it really does shift the balance a lot. So if and when they do this path, which they most likely will, they should take all the time they need to make the updates work well for the game.

Builds paths are hardly linear and no player should be punished for wanting to play their favorite class.

Sure they can just let some builds be complete garbage until rank 12 but that’s not very good for the health of the game.

But I’m hoping they know what they’re doing with the new class system and I’m sure they’ve considered these things and don’t assume that rank up is a simple change.

The balance in this game might never be great but there’s no point of disregarding something like this to make matters even worse than they are, considering they’ve been working hard to make things better.

Here you somewhat get the gist of problems that may come. But it’s really not only a problem for wizards. It’s for all classes, all of them have powerful options and when combined can become easily way too overpowered compared to other builds.

I’m not addressing the rest as I either agree with you or don’t think it’s important.