Tree of Savior Forum

About hangman's knot attribute

Class and Rank Wizard
#1

So it says decreases the AoE defense of enemies in caught by hangman’s knot by 5.

sooo from what I understand lowering AoE defense basically lets people’s attack that has a certain AoE attack to hit more enemies. (e.g 6 aoe attack on earthquake, hits 3 of the 4 monsters in the aoe where each of them have aoe defense of 2. After hangmans knot, all 4 of them will be hit).

Unless I misunderstood AoE defense/attack mechanism, what use is there for this attribute? Since joint penalty already make monsters share the damage there isn’t any need to lower the aoe defense of these monsters?

Im curious because archers and warriors absolutely destroy the monsters everytime I gather them in hangman’s knot, but takes a long time to kill if they are just linked but not gathered.

#2

Having the attribute makes it faster because if say 5 mobs were knotted together and you don’t have the attribute

Let’s assume only 2 of those mobs get hit by all the attacks, all those 5 mobs only take 200% of the total damage dealt by those skills

But if you have the attribute, that 200% will become 500% because all of them are getting hit and share the damage.

#3

This is pretty easy to explain using Magic Missiles:

  • Hangman’s Knot put all enemies in 1 “square”, this makes all of them being in a skill that has range on this “square”. By square I mean the point where all they converge in.

  • Mobs have 1,3,5 AoE def ratio for small, medium and large sizes. HK’s Att reduces it by 5, taking it to negative values.

  • Magic missile hits a set number of enemies (3) and more enemies after that, but any enemies it hits will reduce it’s attack ratio.

  • Those enemies HK’d don’t have aoe def ratio or have them at negative values, this makes MM’s hit on them not to count on MM’s aoe attack ratio.

This at least it how it feels like right now.

#4

i usually don’t like your comments, acting like genius sorcerer with perfect understanding that no one can denies.

but if what you said in this thread are right, you have some serious knowledge about the game, and that in itself is awesome. keep sharing.

#5

There’s a mechanics guide somewhere in the internet,
It is pretty much what @moises_andre12 that being if the guide is right.

Each monster has a aoe def, and spells and such have a aoe ratio
each time your spell hits a monster, its aoe ratio is reduced by the monsters aoe def, when the attack aoe ratio gets to 0 it stops hitting things.

So for instance, if you hit a large size monster (high aoe def) it will bounce to less enemies. Like

Attack has 4 aoe ratio, there are 2 monsters, one large 5 aoe def and one small 1 aoe def

if you hit the big one first, the ratio drops to -1 and stops looking for targets,
if you hit the small one the ratio drops to 3, looks for the next targets, hits the big one. drops then to -2 and stops seeking targets

#6

I don’t really care what people think about me, I’m just posting my point of view, if it’s wrong I’d really like to understand it better and hope anyone can help on that.

On the post earlier I think it got somehow confused but the point is: MM won’t aim all 3 missiles at the HK’d mobs, only 1 missile will be spent on that and it will cause damage to all those linked mobs because it has small AoE, it won’t multiply that single hit because it’s acting as AoE, but leaves other Missiles to hit enemies that acutally count as normal numbers.

About Sorcerer: from 200 to 210 my 6 star TS got 82 attack (+40% if 10 star I believe), make your calculations but I can tell you this: No class in this game scales this good when it comes to raw ATQ or MATQ. I don’t think my build is flawless or some stupid thing like that, I have many builds I’d like to try, I just won’t make an Ele 3 because it’s too much of a pain to go through Wiz 3 all over again and I really want to avoid such mainstream builds but I really understand how good it is.

Another way to understand AoE def ratio: Meteor hits 8 mobs generaly (not sure what size as I don’t have elementalist), if you HK 10 mobs it can hit all those 10 mobs and probably another 7 or 8 mobs along with them. I’m not sure wether negative values are taken into consideration as making it hit even more targets but I don’t think it works like that.

#7

@moises_andre12 I don’t think negatives count, as much as I would like it would be too op op

#8

I think the negatives thing actually does happen. I know it sounds so OP but even with terrible gears, my Wiz3-Linker can kill every group of 5 mobs in the Lv90 dungeon with just JP-HK-MM, while they don’t die with JP-MM-MM. I didn’t really completely read what the others said but it seems that MM can “splash” on that single point (area) where HK brings the monsters.

Also, you can see that Energy Bolt does so much more damage through JP-HK-EB. Some of the monsters I can’t kill with 2 EB, die in that combo (just one EB).

Disclaimer: Not saying that this is what happens. This is just what seems to happen, from my observation.

Edit:

After doing some tests, it seems like the HK isn’t necessary for the EB doubling its damage, but it would help.

Let’s take this scenario:

Monsters A, B, C, and D are all linked (JP)
Monsters B and C are close enough for Energy Bolt’s AoE to hit both of them without links

If I EB Monster C then Monsters A and D take the damage of one EB, while Monsters B and C take twice as much. If I HK between JP and EB, all those monsters take twice as much damage.

So I’m guessing maybe what happens with Magic Missile is that MM was coded to have a fixed AoE Ratio of 1 and to have the teeniest tiniest area of effect, and HK allows you to bypass this.

1 Like
#9

I thought AoE defense ratio is your resistance to AoE attack ratio itself. If you AoE defense ratio is high enough and the enemy casted Earthquake (3AoE attack ratio) on your 3 man party, it will only hit the other 2.

So for HK, if you hk’d 5 mobs and you cast a 5 AoE attack ratio, it will surely hit all of them with the added attribute. I noticed this resistance mostly on my Magnetic Force which shows “Resist” on top of mobs and they won’t get pulled.

Correct me if I’m wrong on my observation.

#10

The AoE defence works different.

Firstly, the guy with the highest AoE defence ratio will allways get hit first.
Lets say you have a party with 5/2/2/1 AoE defence ratio. The splash damage of the Spell covers all 4 player and has an AoE attack ratio of 8.

Player 1 with 5 AoE def gets hit, AoE attack is reduced by 5 to 3. 2nd player gets hitted, AoE is reduced by 2 to 1. Last player would reduce it to -1, so he doesn’t get hitted. Check the wiki its explained there well.

I think we dont have enoough information about MM. Things ive noticed:

  1. The amount of bullets that are splitted after the initial hit is dependend in how many mobs are around the impact.
  2. JP/Hang gathering mobs together, and thus, will always lead to maximum bullets. I think the skill self has an AoE on impact to search for further mobs and this defines how many more bullets will show up after impact.
  3. It might be the case, that the amount of bullets from MM is proportional to your AoE attack ratio, but again, to less informations are available. The skill itself doesn’t say anything about AoE attack ratio “just bullets”…
  4. JP/Hang + QuickC + MM one-shots and is a serious burst, even in dungeons. Its so annoying how often i get aggro after that burst.
  5. I think ive seen like 15 bullets quite often, which means mobs would get 15 times the MM damage with JP. Its pretty good.