Tree of Savior Forum

About Class balance patches

Suggestions
#1

IMC has talked about lessening class disparity over time but I believe this really won’t work especially in ITOS if we have like 2-3 month big patch gap. If a player wants to progress and have fun in the game, then it needs to be relatively reliable/strong as well. There are still many classes in the game that needs rework or mainly needs a buff. One of the reasons I believe why other builds are not common is because of the very big and slow patch that we get.

A player can only dedicate to maybe 1-3 characters. In those 2-3 months of no patch to the class that players want to try or enjoy that a few players play, they’ll already move on to the more popular builds. It is especially so in Tree of Savior where the lower rank classes that you pick matter a lot in the overall build. This is I believe to be relatively true due to the fact that many people were so excited about their class reset scroll and even partly resulted in population increase.

For example, Barbarian 3 got buffed recently in KTOS. If we get that patch 2 months from now, most people have already invested too much in the popular Sword3, Hop 3 or Cata 3. As a result, they most likely won’t even bother with it. A lot of players feel distraught at the sight of investing on more than 1 DPS based character. It is especially true due to how much time a player needs to invest on transcendence and attribute with the extreme investment needed sometimes to clear the endgame content (Solmiki)

My only suggestion is to have like 2 weeks for KTOS class balance patch to arrive in ITOS. For example, if there was a KTOS patch involving a specific class today, then we ought to expect it 2 weeks from today to arrive in ITOS.

I just hope it gets considered really. Please pass forward to devs @STAFF_Yuri @STAFF_John @STAFF_Max

3 Likes
#2

I fully agree, balance patches need to come quickly. Content we can wait for if we have to, but balance decides what builds can participate in end game content, waiting months is simply not acceptable, especially with the way grinding end game gear works.

#3

Please balance your class right IMC, when rank 8 comes out, some dmg buff from rank 1/2 becomes useless

#4

Heh, the problem is that IMC started balancing with classes that weren’t very bad to begin with, but became unpopular because of other reasons.
The only exception is Rune Caster which got a considerable boost on nearly all skills, be it damage, lasting time, CD time reduction and/or overcharge addition.

Sure, the utility changes weren’t bad but quite good, but Cannoneer, Barbarian and Monk weren’t bad classes at all. This is my major concern:
Instead of focusing on the bad performance Classes and Classes which are considerably weaker than their Rank counterpart in most aspects, they took some of the lesser popular classes and applied some utility patches.

And you know what? Aside from Rank 3 Barbarian, they are all Rank 5 and above. Aren’t the most issues with Classes from Rank 2-5 being rather worthless to even consider aside from special builds (be it Krivis Taoists or Quarrelshooter Hackapellas or Paladin Inquisitors e.g.)?
Cleric Circle 1 e.g. feels like a dead end because the good Safety Zone and good Heal are all Circle 2+, which are required for Rank 8+ content.

Priest and Krivis C1 can’t compensate for this, so the player has to invest in either Cleric C2 or has to advance Krivis/Priest to C2-3. This, however, takes away the choice of ranking up a Rank 3 or 4 class unless you’re willing to sacrifice a lot on later Ranks, because from Rank 7 onwards the Classes are becoming so much better than the low-Ranked Classes…

If we consider this goes on for 12 Ranks in total, it’ll be a hard ride at least until Rank 10 for the non-cookie cutters. Yet IMC improved mostly classes they felt were unimpressing. The performance didn’t matter much in the end.

So,to get on topic: If we don’t get most Class updates asap it doesn’t really matter in most cases[ as such updates don’t really matter unless you want to reroll a new character since Rank Reset Voucher is over].
Instead, they should bring the partially updates asap that happen with the regular maintenances (e.g. bugfixes of skills, new attributes for skills, skill improvements) in KTOS nearly every week,yet we have to wait months for those bugfixes and improvements.

It’s not much work to bring us the same fixes and changes a few weeks later since IMC is the company that prepared those fixes in the first place.
Now let me ask you: Why don’t they prepare them for both KTOS and ITOS at the same time if they prepare them anyway before even releasing them on KTOS?

Saying that they want to collect them for adjustment and to minimize bug infestation on the server sounds like a cheap excuse for basically putting effort only towards KTOS and keeping ITOS on the long line. As long as this mentality doesn’t change, getting even this small patches a little earlier seems to be a dream inside a dream.

So, rather than this large balance updates, I want to see regular improvements of skills with KTOS being the blueprint of how they are to be applied[ this is basically standard for most MMORPGs I’ve played until now, getting ± the same patch packages as the mother server with minimal changes applied due to publisher cliental changes]. I don’t care if we’re a month or 6 weeks+ behind, but I want to see the same fixes and improvements bundled together in the same maintenances as KTOS did earlier, tyvm.

#5

i waiting for MASTEMA Dot 20 sec

#6

Cannon Bash skill for cannon c3 please, let me shove my cannon inside the sages hole with a strike damage attack :ok_hand:

1 Like
#7

This isn’t really a discussion about how they’re handling the balancing technically but rather how waiting a long time for a class balance is bad especially in TOS.

Also, [quote=“Adeodatus, post:4, topic:346346”]
If we consider this goes on for 12 Ranks in total, it’ll be a hard ride at least until Rank 10 for the non-cookie cutters. Yet IMC improved mostly classes they felt were unimpressing. The performance didn’t matter much in the end.
[/quote]

. -Kino buffs on gravity pole
-new scaling attribute on sorc’s riding boosted that TS burst
-barb 3 buffs synergizing with fencer/dragoon/doppel a lot.
-cannoneer’s bazooka making cannoneer’s single hit skills be compensated in terms of dmg for just being single hit late game while synergizing it with wugushi/sapper/etc.

  • Wugushi’s new/fixed enhancing attribute and Throw Gu Pot buff made it a serious low rank class to consider.
    -Corsair’s buffs saving it a ton of skill points and perhaps synergy with the new jolly roger attribute along with krivis3 or miko.
    -ETC…

I’m sure these changes improve quite a ton in terms of performance aside from maybe corsair which is questionable. In fact, I’m preety sure some people would be happy to try out these classes if we get these adjustment next week.

Not always true. Look at Pyro2/3, Cata 3, etc. You only have to look which classes have the most true multi-hits for physical/magic classes then look at their modifiers secondly. Rank 8 weapons and transcendence happened which made multi hit classes exponentially stronger. This is why cannoneer needed rework since every skill was 1 hit and fell off really bad. Also, damage cap.

I really don’t get this. This is confusing me.

#8

I was talking about the Class balance patch of Barbarian, Warlock, Rune Caster, Cannoneer and Monk. What you list there are the things I stated in my ontopic part: partially improvements of skills overtime with patches.

[quote=“Sensate, post:7, topic:346346”]
Not always true. Look at Pyro2/3, Cata 3, etc. You only have to look which classes have the most true multi-hits for physical/magic classes then look at their modifiers secondly. Rank 8 weapons and transcendence happened which made multi hit classes exponentially stronger. This is why cannoneer needed rework since every skill was 1 hit and fell off really bad. Also, damage cap. [/quote]
Pyro is out of the question because IMC didn’t improve it, it was broken due to the introduction of Agni Necklace.

Damage cap doesn’t really matter that much, the real problem is the poor scaling of monsters physical defence which made multihit classes so strong. If they raised the pdef of monsters to 4-8k (considering that so many classes have 30-50% reduction debuffs), the multihit classes would eat dirt since their skills would deal no damage [which would be fairer than the current mechanic].

My ontopic post part was about the several improvements KTOS gets for skills and/or attributes during every maintenance.
E.g.: (courtesy to http://pastebin.com/u/sunhwapark for the patch note translations)

KTOS patch notes 15.12.2016

Corsair:

“Corsairs would like to get a little more courtesy through the ‘pirate’ party system. We’re expecting to see some improved pirate effects when corsairs are in parties. This does follow on from the changes that have been made to the current Pillage skill.”

► Jolly Roger:
    ○ The conditions for the combo have been changed, they are no longer monster kills - but instead monster strikes. ( This combo meter goes up to 300)
    ○ The combo effects have been changed. The max damage per combo has been removed, and for 10 seconds, Missile attack damage is increased by (15% + (3 * Skill Level))%
    ○ The combo can only be activated once per Jolly Roger Flag that has been placed, and the 'FEVER!' time lasts for 10 seconds.
    ○ The cooldown time has been changed to 35 Seconds. (Previously 16 Seconds)
    ○ The skill duration has been changed to (20 + (35 * Skill Level))Seconds.

Doppelsoeldner:

    "The latest batch of bug fixes showed that Doppels damage was in a good place, but it was due to the result of a lot of unintended mechanics which has caused them to lose their power potential. We have made some changes to the Doppelsoeldner's aggressive side so that players can feel the impact of cyclone attacking at a high speed." 
   
► Cyclone:
    ○ Attack speed is increased by 33%.
    ○ The duration of the skill has been changed to 0.2 Seconds per skill level. (Previously 0.3s Per Skill level)
   
   
    " The Deeds of Valor was too ambiguous because it felt the same after the 10th level, and to add to that the penalty for using it was also quite high. We reduced the armor reduction by half to keep the concept of having a drawback to the ability but to also grant it some warranty beyond the 10th skill level."
   
► Deeds of Valor:
    ○ The defense reduction per skill level has been changed to 5% per skill level. (Previously 10%)
   
    "This is a rank 8 ability, but it appeared to be negligible to use for monsters around the level of rank 8. We've increased the amount of defensive damage it can break through so it can be more useful at Rank 8."
   
► Sturtzhau  
    ○ The ignored defense per skill level has been changed to 200 per level. (Previously 75 per level)

Elementalist:

" Meteor has been quite neglected due to its long downtime in comparison to the effect of the skill. With the changes we have prepared for you, youll be able to use Meteor even more often and attack more enemies with it."
"If a person has dedicated 3 Circles to Elementalist and invested a large amount of skill points into Meteor, they will be able to cast Meteor faster."
► Meteor:
    ○ The AoE Attack Ratio has been increased to 16. (Previously 10)
    ○ The cooldown time has been reduced to 60 Seconds. ( Previously 90 seconds)
    ○ A 'Meteor:Quickcast' Attribute has been added. (Reduces cast time for Meteor by 50%, Rank 3 Elementalist Req + Meteor LV.10)

Runecaster:
“Runecasters were designed with a concept of having long cast times and cooldowns, however in its current position they do seem a bit too long for practical uses, so the overall cooldowns for runecasters will be lowered”

► Rune of Destruction:
    ○ The cooldown time has been lowered to 60 Seconds. (Previously 90s.)
   
►Rune of Ice:
    ○ The cooldown time has been lowered to 140 Seconds. (Previously 180s.)

"The development team is quite sad that the giant rune ability is treated as a visually flashy skill. However, making changes to this ability requires some careful consideration as it can cause several issues later down the line. Starting from this patch, there will be more and more things you can do with the Rune of Giants."

► Rune of Giants
    ○ The cooldown time has been lowered to 120 Seconds. (Previously 300s)
    ○ Runecaster skills are now available to use whilst under the enlarging effects of Rune of Giants.

" The Rune of Justice did not achieve the performance levels that were planned, especially since it was not even on par with Rune of Destruction, some changes have been made to the skills specs     to make it more efficient under certain conditions to differ itself from the Rune of Destruction. The Rune of Justice now will deal strong amounts of damage to Dark Property Monsters and will be easier to use due to the addition of an Overheat. "
   
► Rune of Justice:
    ○ The attacking attributes for this ability has been changed to Holy. (Previously Melee)
    ○ The skill's Overheat has been increased by 2 uses.
   
   
"The Rune of Protection seemed to not be advantageous in comparison to other spell buffs that had 100% immunity to stun and whatnot, so we have increased the duration of this buff  for a more prolonged use."

► Rune of Protection:
    ○ The duration of the buff will change to 20Seconds Per Skill Level. (Previously 10s Per Skill lv.)

Wugushi:
* General Changes:
"A majority of the Wugushi’s damage comes from the debuffs it can apply, although there is a problem with them at the moment where in their current place - poisons debuff ranking is quite low and can be negated with too much ease. Debuffs applied by Circle 2/3 Wugushi’s abilities will now be considered level 2 debuffs. "

The debuff level of the skills is changed to the following:
    - Circle 1 Skills: Debuff Lv.1
    - Circle 2,3 Skills: Debuff Lv.2
   
"The poison pot was an awkward skill to use in comparison to other classes. To try to compensate this issue the range has been increased a bit, as well as the duration scaling to skill level which can hopefully interest more into investing points into the poison pot skills"
   
►Throw Gu Pot
    ○ Skill Range is increased by 25%
    ○ The duration is now (5 + (1*SkillLevel))Seconds.  (Previously 6s)
   
►Jincan Gu:
    ○ The following pests will change. You will gain access to enemies, self destruction and poisonous damage to a certain extent. The pests will survive for 3 seconds and then disappear after that duration.
    ○ When attacking you'll get a 10% chance to spawn a pest.
    ○ The amount of pests generated will be changed to 1 per skill level, if you hit the max amount of pest spawns due to the 10% chance, new insects will not spawn at that time.
    ○ The value of debuff damage that Jincan Gu can output will now also increase by the skill level of this ability.

Kabbalist:
“When the Merkabah chariot went through enemies, it was kind of awkward that no damage was being dealt around it. We have made changes to this skill so that it can harm enemies it passes through aswell, to increase the usability of this skill by Kabbalists.”

►Merkabah
    ○ This skill will now penetrate through enemy targets.
    ○ The max number of hits: Per 1 Wheel = [Skill Level * 10] Hits

or

Bugfixes KTOS patch 08.12.2016

Bug Fixes

【Skills】

Corsair:
Plunder:
- Looting will now only occur in the vicinity of the party.

Sadhu:
Vasshita Siddhi:
- When hit whilst channeling this skill, you will no longer cast this ability. (Re-Fixed)

such things I want to see on the patch notes for ITOS, not some improvements bundled as a whole patch several months apart from its origin on KTOS. If IMC prepares the patches, they should prepare the skill/attribute/bugfixes for both servers simultaneously and please introduce a test server to ITOS too to find out about malicious issues before people can exploit them to oblivion or suffer with them forever.

#9

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