Tree of Savior Forum

15th of Sept - kCBT3 Patch [Huge necro buff]

Actually for PvP, do Necros get full corpse count when they start or are they just screwed over? Also, it seems difficult to use if you somehow manage to use all of your corpses before the fight ends :confused:

If I ever find people on the queue I will tell you, lol.

So 5v5 PvP where the gear prior to entering is completely invalid. Changing gear from being relevant in PvP just waters it down, there’s no point to this other than forcefully making PvP a minigame independant from the actual in-game progress.

@Satoru
Obviously if levels still give an advantage that would be great.

“You post like a level 100 player would be on equal footing with a level 200 player, which is obviously not true”
How is it “obvious”? It already happened in Dungeon Fighter with the Fair Arena, which basically stardardised all players to the point of not needing to do anything at all, needless to say it was removed because it was retarded.

@SyncX
Dedication is also a skill. If you don’t like progression to matter at all why even play PvP in an MMO? Just go play a game that focuses on actual PvP.

Levels and equipment should be standardized for Arena play. Otherwise the PVP would be broken and pretty lame. It would suck to face a team of people half my level and being able to destroy them with little to no challenge. It would also equally suck to be in a group of low levels facing a team they have no chance of winning. Either way it sucks.

This gives them a chance. They are still at a Huge disadvantage. They will have less skills, less powerful skills of the ones they do have, and won’t have anywhere near the attributes (Not talking stats) that higher players have.

So the dedicated people will still have a huge advantage, but at least the matches will be a bit more fun for both sides.

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Were we talking about open world PvP, I’d be right behind you. Arena PvP however, should be won by those who have mastered game/class mechanics and technique (much like League).

Dedication being a skill? Fair enough, won’t argue on that one… but let’s look at this way. In an arena setting, those who mindlessly grind for 10+ hours a day shouldn’t be given that advantage in arena PvP. Outside of arena… fine, give them their levels and stats.

Arenas are meant for those who know PvP, not PvE. I, for one, would find it boring to stomp people dozens of levels under me anyway. I guess that’s just my competitive spirit. I like a leveled playing field.

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Uh, both of those are pretty easily solved through having actual good matchmaking. All this is doing is seperating PvP from the entire game as a whole, which just brings the question why they even bothered to have it. PvP in an MMO should factor in player player progress in terms of both level and gear, since it means that the PvP works together with the rest of the game.

Why? It’s the same game, progress in one part of it should matter for the other.

@MeteorD
Matchmaking based on level sounds like a horrible idea for a game that plans for 500 levels+, especially if the progress is slower than normal games. All that would do is separate the player base for Arena PVP and create long Ques and repeat match ups against the same people.

Level will be factored in. Higher levels means more skills, stronger skills, more attributes, and higher attributes. This just evens the playing field so that matches are still fun if you are matched against lower level people or higher level people.

They are trying to balance PVP so it’s a challenge regardless of level, and you ask why even have it? O.o Wow.

@SyncX
This is so far the only PvP mode in the entire game, so I’m naturally going to assume it’s going to be like this for all future modes as well.
A large portion of the ToS playerbase are PvP focused, if the rest of the game literally doesn’t matter at all this is going to end extremely bad in the long term.

PvP Arena having different formulas to make the difference between players not so large is completely okay, works wonders for Dungeon Fighter.

However making all character progress completely irrelevant is TERRIBLE.

Also I have no idea why you think that dedicated players shouldn’t be rewarded. That is stupid.

@imissbrooke32
You completely missed the point. We are talking about the hypothetical case that this “standardising” makes any kind of progress null. If levels are still factored in then there’s not really that much of a problem.

The problem is not the balance in itself, the problem is making progression irrelevant.

I didn’t miss the point, I am telling you it is wrong. You are saying this, “Standarising” makes any progress null. That isn’t the case. It just means that someone 50 levels higher won’t just cream the floor with his opponents because he is 50 levels higher. This means character progress isn’t completely irrelevant.

Higher level people will have way more attributes to pick from and those attributes will all be higher. They aren’t going to be able to join a match and then spend the next 13 hours skilling up attribtures. Higher level people will have more skills (Higher ranks) and more classes under their belt. This is all on top of the extra play time they have with their character.

This isn’t a question of, “OMG I have to win by skill alone because everything else is irrelevant!”. People who put more time in will still have a huge advantage. It just means if you face people lower level than you, you aren’t going to mop the floor with them based on that alone. Or if you face someone higher than you, you still might have a chance.

This is a win for everyone. It means more matches quicker, and that those matches will be fun (Regardless of your level, or theirs). I love PVP and even if being a higher level only meant a 5% increase in power I would strive for that 5% increase. But from the looks of it being a higher level still comes with a huge range of advantages that make it worth it.

The only person who doesn’t win from this outcome is people who don’t want to be good but want to win because they have a higher level/more time played.

I’m against the standardization of pvp, but it looks like we will be keeping our skills, attributes, and such. Still, i’m more concerned about what the rewards of pvp will be if there will be any at all.

And this will put a dent on pvp builds, like what’s the point of going full CON Elementalist when you will have the same hp as every other wizard out there? In fact, what pvp build could you make?

That’s easy. Skills that benefit PVP. Skills that Knock people down, CC, break CC, etc. And who said you will have the same HP as other wizard regardless of Stats?

They standardized level and gear, not stats. Someone that went full CON will still have way more HP than someone who didn’t. Someone who goes full Dex will still have more evasion than someone who didn’t.

If two people are level 100 it doesn’t mean their stats are the same. They could still have two very different stat builds.

It really isn’t, that’s your own self-made notion. This makes any PvP-centered player have absolutely no reason to do anything else other than levelling, since gearing up would mean jack point ■■■■. You seem to be under the impression that the only reason to want this is because of not being able to win otherwise which is just a ridiculously shitty strawman argument. Wanting the effort and time you’ve put into the game to matter and not be made void for the sake of some forced standarization due to hurt feelings or whatever is completely reasonable.

The best PvP systems are when progression can be made through either path and they can actually work in conjunction with eachother. It has never been one where they try their best to do the exact opposite. PvP only needs to be balanced between classes, as long as gear differences isn’t massively overwhelming at the same level as an opposing player there is no reason to even consider this option, since it’s a solution to an issue that’s completely irrelevant.

It said levels were standarized, I figured that meant stats also affected since you receive stat points with levels. Equipment standardization obviously just meant equipment.

Given that characters of all levels were already able to be matched together before this patch, what exactly does the level standardization mean?

Wait wait. Are you a PVP-Centered player?

I am. I would level as quick as possible for the attribute bonuses alone. They give devastating advantages. Do you disagree with this?

Do you believe giving skills stuns, knockdowns, new skills entirely are all irrelevant and not worth getting? Because attributes alone seem worth gaining those levels. Even though leveling higher gives way more bonuses.

Do you believe a level 150 Wizard will be as powerful as a level 150 Elementalist?

levels and equips are standardized meaning all levels and gears will be the same for pvp players?
how?
so a lv50 with lame gear and lv100 with godly gear will fight together being lv 75 and with cotton shirt and knife?

it won’t be fun :fearful:

Wanting the attribute bonuses and considering levels to be worth getting doesn’t instantly invalidate wanting gear to be relevant. If they bother putting PvP in an MMO then making the other forms of progression you can make in PvP character-wise count in PvP as well makes more than enough sense.

Ahhh. Maybe this is where people are getting disconnected.

Check: http://www.tosbase.com/tools/stat-calculator/

Place 50 points into Con. Look at the stats and then set your level to 50, then 150 and check out the difference in stats. Two people at level 150 can distribute their stats completely differently as well. Some people focusing on one or another, or a balance.

Again MeteorD.

Do you believe a level 150 Wizard (That was upgraded from level 15) will be as powerful as a level 150 Elementalist?

The 10% thing is VERY LIKELY [edit: nah I’m dumb and wrong - but I was also looking at the alternative very incorrectly] a boost to the effects of skills for each rank above the skills circle / rank you are. I mean, it’s a very important balancing issue, which brings the first few rank’s skills on an even playing field with the strength of those later on (just look at the damage differences, comparing a max leveled early rank skill to that of a low leveled high rank skill). Especially now that you can pick up lower ranked classes at a higher rank, it’s very much a balancing thing.

This is in contrast to the addition of 10% to actual stats, of which makes very little sense and seems kind of arbitrary if done literally, and gamebreaking if done in a way that rewards picking up as many 3 circle class sets as possible (this promotes less freedom in terms of choosing a build). [So it’s just a 10% boost each rank, which I honestly find kind of dumb, but I guess they need to it so people but some emphasis on not con or dex]

Also, the mercenary guild seems to have some stuff going on now, but it seems very unfinished (before, the guy would just tell you to come back later). Also, the additions are seemingly unrelated to the instance dungeons (you can choose from a list of maps, but nothing happens when you do, and there’s nothing new on the map, at least for Gele Plateau).