Tree of Savior Forum

Why aren't there higher rank healers in the Cleric tree?

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#22

Heal lvl 11/16 is very powerful. You have Mass Heal from Priest as you said. Higher ranks from Clerics are already giving other ways to heal your party. Krivis has Aukuras, coupled with Restoration from Paladin it’s like a “Recup”. And you can do much better heals thank to Restoration, it works on heal tiles, maybe on Mass Heal (I didn’t test it). Sadly it dosen’t work on Healing Factor from Plague Doctor, but hey Healing Factor is another way to heal people no ? And oh wait, there is the Kabbalist class which has Ein Soft, again another way to heal.

I think we have enough ways to heal people even at higher ranks, more healing skills why not, but with new mechanics.

And stop trying to say Cleric tree should be only healers or supports. NO. Or tell me where can you put Monk in this case.

#23

At one point during the CBT’s heal tiles were garbage and everyone complained that cleric needed a boost. IMC gave it a boost by increasing the heal tiles and now it needs to be nerfed? Eh imo you can have all the heal tiles in the world but if you don’t have the INT to support it, your heals are still garbage. Like my monk. 9 tiles all weak because of the lack of INT. My PD on the other hand heals like a champ, but it didn’t get that way instantly I had to go through Cleric2-Priest-Deiv…in order to say on now my heals are pretty strong, now I have enough INT to say it’s effective. I can agree that there are no higher ranked cleric classes that focus on healing but, we still have two ranks to go, and we don’t know if they’re working on an ultimate healing class of some sort, which actually wouldn’t surprise me.

#24

Yep! My Druid is also a Cleric2 and his heals work fine as long as the only person I need to heal is myself. Since I’m a DEX/CON build, I’m nowhere near as effective at party healing as someone who’s running an INT build.

The problem, as far as I can tell, is that INT both increases the potency of Heal tiles while also being the primary stat for Magic Attack. That makes it a little too easy to make a build that heals well and competes for top DPS.

Changing the scaling stat (Not the modifier) from INT to SPR would fix that. Want a DPS Cleric? Okay, dump points into INT. Looking for stronger heals? No problem, invest in SPR. That way you can do one or the other well rather than both simultaneously.

This. Clerics aren’t healers in the traditional MMO sense. It’s a hybrid tree that encompasses support, utility, and DPS.

That being said, there are some Cleric class combos that are OP and, judging by what’s happening on the ktest server, IMC is taking steps to bring them back in line. Thankfully, they’re doing it by adjusting the way skills work and buffing/nerfing classes individually instead of trying to shoehorn the whole tree into a primary healer role.

Clerics shouldn’t be forced into being healers just because that’s what players are used to in other games.

#25

Cleric’s heal is skill which make cleric tree broken, cleric can do their class main job (healing) just with 2 circle rank1 and 2, and higher rank just for damage, even for buffs, it’s really good for cleric themselves. Swman even with 9 rank cant make them be a real tanker (without cleric). Same with archer and wiz be DPS, support

#26

To clarify, my issue is that a Rank 1 class has the best, general heal. That’s like a Swordsman, Archer or Wizard having the best X skill for its role. It just doesn’t make sense for a Rank 1 class to possess that kind of potency for that given role.

I know IMC wants to make each class as unique as possible with few duplicate skills as you advance up the ranks. And I also support their effort to rebalance classes so that there isn’t too large a gap between ranks resulting in more classes being viable throughout the game. But I believe the four base classes should offer beginning to mid-tier skills which, some are still useful later but also entry skills that can be replaced by more potent versions from higher ranking classes.

Damage skills scale higher with higher rank classes and there’s tons of variety in damage type skills. There are even three magic resistance buffs between the Paladin, Pardoner and Taoist. Why not have a few other post-Cleric classes have similar heals as well to offer more diversity which could help make classes more viable?

My suggestion would be to reduce the potency of Cleric Heal and give at least one other advanced class a more potent version of Heal.

#27

The class that would best fit what you’re suggesting would probably be Chaplain (It’s the ultimate evolution of the Priest line, after all) but I’m not sure that would solve the problem as you describe it.

By giving players access to the potency of Heal in the base class, the Cleric tree lets you diversify your choices later on without compromising your ability to be basic support. Reducing Heal’s effectiveness in favor of a stratified healing skill setup would force Cleric players into stricter build choices, not more lenient ones. As it is, you can get Cleric2, then do whatever you want with the remaining six ranks. That wouldn’t be the case if you had to worry about whether or not taking a rank or two of that DPS class you’ve been eyeing would hamstring your ability to heal a party at higher levels.

Thematically, what you’re saying makes sense but in practice you’d likely end up dividing the class into two very specific sets of builds. You’d have the healers and then there’d be everybody else.

#28

I’m not agaisnt having someone that dedicates himself into keeping the party alive. by giving every cleric the capability of fully restoring HP with great effectiveness regardless of choices makes all cleric healers while also being able to deal damage.

Let it be a split between damage/support, healing/support, full support, full healer, full damage, but do not mix heal with damage, it allows a player to be way too self sufficient.

I’d also like this to happen mostly because I feel that, despite being a Role playing game, there’s a distinct lack of roles going around. So, yes, move the current heal to priest or sumthing.

This would also help make me less mad when I see a cleric that is not, well, healing me, because I’d be able to distinguish a healer from a damage cleric.

#29

You can’t tell by the icon next to their health bar? Or by mousing over it to see their build?

#30

Right now, if you’re a cleric, you’ve got heal, and if you’re not casting that thing. MAN I hate you. if, cleric 1 did not have that heal, then I’d be more forgiving.

#31

[quote=“Timeshadow, post:27, topic:356578, full:true”]
Thematically, what you’re saying makes sense but in practice you’d likely end up dividing the class into two very specific sets of builds. You’d have the healers and then there’d be everybody else.
[/quote]The way I see it, that’s how it is presently: the Cleric and the other 16 classes from advancement. When you read what class groups ask for, it’s Cleric. With my idea, the primary healer role wouldn’t just fall on a single class. It could be served by a few, giving additional classes a greater sense of purpose and utility.

Think of all the post-Cleric classes. If you looked at several, each likely has one skill nobody invests in because it’s not all that useful compared to the other options. This skill could be replaced with some kind of curative skill, again, expanding the healer role to additional classes instead of players choosing Cleric C2 when they can use that circle to advance to Priest or Krivis giving them access to higher ranked classes (and their skills) earlier.

#32

You make a good point here. But having the best X skill for its role is the best idea in my opinion. IMC should try to rework a little bit Swordman/Archer/Wizard rank 1, because it’s a lot of time a big waste and you have no way to avoid it. They need to find skills to identify Swordman/Archer/Wizard 1.

#33

You can already do that. Some players opt to go straight for Cleric2, others put it off until a little later. Unless you’re planning to build a Paladin3 or something that involves Sadhu (#RIPForever) , it’s perfectly viable to put Cleric2 off until Rank 4 in favor of Priest2 or Krivis2.

Yes, groups ask for Clerics but that doesn’t infer that the advanced classes are useless. For that to be true you have to assume that healing is the only thing that makes Clerics desirable. On the contrary, the current set up means a group knows it’s getting heals when it recruits a Cleric regardless of what other classes that particular build includes. Nobody rejects a Druid or an Inquisitor because they’re DPS and the party needs support. That support is baked in so Cleric players are free to structure their builds however they want without fear of being rejected by parties because they can’t fulfill the role of heals/buffs.

#34

Yeah, you’d definitely hate me. I drop Heal if I notice someone’s low on health or (More often than not) if I am. Should you happen to notice those tiles and run over them, great. If you don’t, hey, more for me :yum:

#35

I said, if you don’t use it.
There are plenty of clerics that, even though they do have healing capabilities, since they atleast have cleric 1, and of course they took heal. don’t bother throwing heal tiles around.

For these people, it would be better for them if they would not be condemned to be taken as healers, it is not their role. they can do it, but they’ve forsaken it. so, remove it from them.

#36

IMO, it’s better to put the core skills at lower ranks. If you redistribute healing capabilities to higher ranks, there’d be less room for class choices later on. Just look at how viable most cleric builds are currently. As long as you have cleric 2, you’re viable in general pve gameplay. Now take that healing capability from cleric 2 and give it to, let’s say, a rank 4-5 class. Those who want to be viable in parties would be somehow forced to adjust their builds to that higher-ranked class. Ultimately, the other builds would be less viable because of less heals.

#37

Removing it from them won’t fix it… they’re just bad players :disappointed_relieved:

You have to just like, ignore those guys and use pots and play your own game. I always carry HP pots around so I don’t get caught in these situations. It sucks not being able to rely on others but what to do right?

Try not to let yourself be affected by them ^^ that’s what I try to do.

#38

[quote=“Timeshadow, post:33, topic:356578, full:true”]
You can already do that. Some players opt to go straight for Cleric2, others put it off until a little later. Unless you’re planning to build a Paladin3 or something that involves Sadhu (#RIPForever) , it’s perfectly viable to put Cleric2 off until Rank 4 in favor of Priest2 or Krivis2.[/quote]

What if players don’t want Cleric2 at all? Where do they get a comparable, primary heal from outside of that one class?

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#39

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