am amaze I hit 200+ xD
So whats the point of mana? Its just limitation system.
Its system copy-pasted by all games from paper systems like D&D, where it got right to be there since its mostly game of hard decision and limitations. Games like D&D also have cast limit per rest and stamina system with works like mana for warriors. Meaning everybody is handicaped in equal manner and it matter there alot.
In online gaming its nothing more than brainless copy-paste and annoyance. All you do in TOS is just buy mana potions and spam them, and you just loose silver, invetory weight and are forced to go to town time to time and ofcourse press button to use the potion. With that you have no limitation, price of potions is also low comparing to high-lvl income. Additionaly if the limitation of mana is to high, people start to disregrad weaker skills and only cast the most optimal ones - meaning they sometimes run around and prolong fights.
Some games like diablo or POE are already ramking them. Games like LOL already proved that characters without mana are more popular. There are few ways to fix it:
1)Remove the mana - though it create boring void
2)Introduce skils that generate and spend mana - similary to diablo skills, though it also make people cast only the optimal spells
3)IMO best system is to create for each tree (swordman/mage/archer/cleric) charge system - you can use charge to enchance next skill with some properties. This system can be enchanced further with each circle having some unique attribute to it. This will fill the void, will give you some decisions inside battle and when creating build. It could also open new ways for skills to interact with it.
Its funny i remember all the ppl here that were saying oh relevations online/Bless/LEgend of mu will be so much better then tos and all the ■■■■ now they are dead too xD
But ppl overdo it with xx is dead ect its always the same.^^
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Okay I’ll bite, since you brought up Path of Exile, as someone who gets 36+/40 challenges most leagues, gets 95+ in Hardcore in every league I play while completing the Atlas, has supported the game since beta and is heavily into theorycrafting new builds with the path of building community.
Oh sweet sweet child, if only you knew what you were talking about. Mana in POE is one of the most important gameplay mechanics of the entire game, that is why high tier crafted Elreon rings are so valuable, so many uniques exist that lower costs, increase costs, are enhanced by how much you spend, how much max mana you have, Blood Magic which comes with a negative effect, Keystones like Mine over Matter and Divine Guidance exist, Auras take a % of your maximum mana, and so many builds revolve around solely mana. etc.
Mana is one of the most defining mechanics of the game I don’t even know why you bring it up as an example, it’s actually insane and shows that you probably don’t play the game, or are a noob (no offense).
Diablo on the other hand is quite different sure, but there’s a reason why that game was a failed product and didn’t live up to its name (sure it got slightly better with the expac) and is now why GGG is now the king of the genre, but that’s another discussion entirely.
And yet Dungeon and Dragons is still the most popular tabletop rpg for over 40 years, that says something.
You can do that, or you can manage your sp and use potions to increase your damage at the right time via chapparition cards while getting mana back, get spirit on gear without sacrificing your other important stats, pick classes that synergize together for affordable sp costs, Utilize other class effects like Squire Tent, Ein Sof, ect.
That’s exactly the point, a system you need to build and balance yourself around of. That’s half the fun with most these games where you can customize your character. Its also something that keeps you from spamming something that’s potentially too powerful like Resurrection in ffxiv.
That’s the thing about ToS, freedom of choice, and you take that away all you get is a game like Diablo 3 where you have near-infinite resources where you spam all your skills constantly, and pretty much only look for items with higher damage, which most people I know agree is quite boring. Maybe others feel different though.
As for League of Legends and what champion is more or less popular, I have no idea since I havent played that game in years, but I doubt it has little to do with mana, but maybe you are right, I can’t say. I know that mana plays a huge role in Dota, not only for skills but Heroes and items too, and it’s a system that works well there.
Biggest flop of all time for mmorpgs lol. Where did that 60 million dollars go towards.
Also ToS is certainly a niche game, even if all the problems it has/had were fixed before it launched it still wouldn’t be a very popular mmorpg, sure it’d have more people, but I don’t think it would have retained even a quarter of its first month player base.
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I am Closed Beta PoE player. Mana mechanics there in its original state have no value or even function.
Mana in itself is resource that allow you to cast skills - that is it MAIN function and prupose. Manashield systems, mana aura reservation systems and other examples that you gave from POE can be without any problem moved/supported by different mechanic than mana. This is because they are TOTALLY different mechanic than mana itself - only by chance they are linked to mana. So its pointless to give them as an example of defending mana system. I could create other “charge” system to support reservation costs of auras. Create totally different resource to support shields and so on. Mana is not something that is MUST for those systems to exist.
What you write is actualy proof of what I am saying. Since mana by itself is totally useless mechanic in POE (resource to cast spells). Developers were forced to create mechanics that used it in meaningfull way. Thats one way to do it and solve the problem - give it some real prupose.
Additionaly if you take original aspect of mana in POE, it doesnt exist, mana leech is totally removing mana functionality of making you think what to cast next. Also POE “casting” resource is actualy what makes POE aRPG but on the other hand limit build variety. Since you have only one resource (that is basicaly infinite without problem if build well) for all skills, you will build all chars around one attack skill. This shallow POE, though as aRPG game its acceptable.
Diablo on the other hand wanted us to build (on the beginning) around many attack with generators/spenders/cooldowns and it worked nicely. But after sometime they released many new legendaries that support only one skill - so again you spend all your “one resource” on just one skill to boost it to maximum.
In TOS its not hard to bypass the limit, if its like that, it isnt limit anymore but just annoyance.
I am not saying that there shouldnt be any limit. I am saying that either it have some meaning and logic or should be removed. Just like many swordman skills that support autoatttack only, because IMC wanted to make swordman autoattack class, yet they totally failed since skills outclass autoattack by a lot.
Thats why I would propose a charge system together with current cooldowns. Similary like souls for vaal skills in POE, you boost your current perfomance rather than limit it.
Additionaly I dont find restriction of using skills to 0 (since 0 mana = 0 skills castable) in game where you can only survive by using skills a very logical decision.
Considering the adventure journal includes every single bot and everyone that logs on and kills even one monster for 1 second to try the game and then potentially quit and not come back I don’t consider it a very good metric for judging how large the active playerbase is.
This however is pretty telling, considering most active players would of voted at the npc during the event for their free stuff.
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Actually it isnt, considering that many/most players have multiple accounts to benefit form event(s). Multiple accounts != many players.
The prizes were things like timed multi tokens, hardly worth abusing it with multiple accounts, but I suppose you could shave a few off the total to account for it.
So many people who actually play the game would disagree with you.
I never said that, have you got 7+ linked abilities? The costs can be insane and require building around too. I was giving you examples of how you think mana is useless aside from casting spells, that doesn’t mean that I’m saying its useless for casting spells though lol. Don’t make assumptions. Also not every build can use mana leech, and there are modifiers on maps and monsters where leech doesn’t even work, and can be incredibly risky depending on the content too.
Like mentioned above, not everyone can get mana leech, and not every build benefits from it.
Except it does, I even listed a dozen of them, most of which have been in the game since its early days.
Mana has always been meaningful in POE, and half of these mechanics have been in the game since it was out of beta. New mechanics that have been added arent added to make it ‘more meaningful’ new mechanics are added to be new content for people to play around with, one of many reasons why POE is a popular game and Diablo is not.
Except not, numbers don’t lie. Diablo 3 is dead af.
Precisely why that game is so boring and everyone plays the same builds, and why GGG won’t ever release set pieces in POE.
I can’t believe I’m arguing with someone who wants games to be more like Diablo 3 over something like Path of Exile, what has this world come too.
TLDR: Mana is fine.
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Sure you are. If you were to post this on the poe forums people would think you are a newbie and don’t know what ur talking about. I bet you havent even killed a league shaper, let alone uber elder.
Please keep Diablo 3 game mechanics away from any game. I’d rather play TOS than D3 and that says a lot. 
Also on topic. Can’t be worse than some other games, like Ragnarok online 2.
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I have played in RO private servers with like 5 players and still enjoyed it. For me the population isn’t a problem. What really bothers me and made me rage quit three times (even one time i deleted all my characters) it’s the stupid enhancement system, but i’m not gonna create another topic about it, there is a lot of them going around and IMC hasn’t say a word about it. Hopefully one day it will change, i really doubt it though.
wew
got hooked on indigon builds huh?
you should try some bm builds too lol
Never made an indigon build, the helms sell for a decent amount on hardcore, rather have the currency. This league I focused on one character, 97 poets pen Juggernaut, 9 endurance charges. Easily clears all content and is great at mapping, worked a lot better than the Hierophant version.
Mana is originaly designed only for that - allow you to cast skills. There is nothing holding back any game developer to remove that function from mana. What would happen in POE if you left mana and just remove skill cost? Almost nothing, 90% of builds wouldnt even feel it.
Everything else is additional mechanic that can be moved to other mana-like system without problem. Meaning mana original prupose doesn’t have any reason to exist. Can be effectivly bypassed and replaced by many other ideas that would work much better and be less annoying.
Mana reservation wasn’t in closed beta. I am not even sure if Mana Shield mechanic was in CBT.
Though on the other hand mana in beta actualy made sense, most skill costs were then 5 times as higher as now. I bet you dont even know that in CBT if you linked same skill in many gear pieces it was supported by all of them, they werent seperate skills like now.
For example you could have Split Arrow +3 supports in helm, +5 supports in armor + 3 in gloves and boots for a totall of 14 supports. Lately I was runing with 7-linked-like Axe with even power of 8 links. But I suistained that build with just 3% totall mana (97% reserved) and few % of mana leech. It was like nothing, where in CBT i had uber mana cost to bypass. 14 links + few times higher base costs.
Current PoE is based on leech mechanic. Attack damage can have mana leech superb easly, there is nothing even to discussin this regard. Most mages classes with a bit of thinking can also use mana leech with smaller %, but based on the damage numbers POE creeped to, you can suistain infinite mana with just like 0,5% mana leech (with I am doing easly on mages in practice).
Thats why most people don’t even use mana flasks at all. In closed beta I used 4 mana flasks in order to suistain my archer. Current costs are piss poor and people spam skills like crazy. So please don’t tell me that there is any meaning of mana in POE beside mechanic that by a chance use mana as a resource for something else. Original function of mana isn’t working anymore.
Additional proof is Vaal skills, why they dont use mana? Because mana is not a limiter at all, they needed to create additional limiter that was really a limiter. Still they failed at it since POE is about spamming skills. Few people abused the mechanic and again could spam Vaal skills anyway. Becaues POE mechanics are contradicting each other. PoE is great game, but by design and logic it’s a failure in many parts.
What a load of bs.
You need to build around mana consumption and regeneration (passives, items, indirect cast, etc).
Why not remove Life then? It’s just another limiter, right? And you have life leech! And you even have Energy shield so many builds won’t even feel a difference if you removed Life completely.
And Damage too. Let’s remove damage, it’s just a limiter too. Many builds already just clear entire screens of monsters with a single button press.
So, no life, no mana, no damage. You are invulnerable, your skills cost nothing and kill instantly everything displayed on screen.
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Wow is this still TOS or am I in PoE forums…
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