Tree of Savior Forum

Swordie C2 V.S Pelt C1 Discussion

I do see the pro’s of swash buckling, but why all the hate on swordie c2?
I disagree that its as useless as the majority of people i see make it out to be.

The downtime for concentrate is too long on the pelt route and the CC immunity can be invaluable not to mention the other perks, most notably restrain and gung ho now most people say gung ho is useless but i tend to disagree after doing hard math with max attribute its the equivalent of adding a LOT of base damage for your character at lvl 10.

Well anyway what are you guy’s thoughts on this?

Well I think the reason why it is underrated because builds usually have to tend to mix-max a specific type either between a skill spammer or mainly auto attacks to use as their main damage disher.

That said, the only viable build that works so far I’ve seen is my friend using Swordie C2 in order to amplify the total DPS that his Cataphract skills do. Right now, Cataphract skills are mostly multi-hit type so it really benefits greatly from Concentrate and is easily capable of avoiding the enemy with 2H spear along with the minor Gung ho penalty.

You’re beating a dead topic here.Plenty has been posted as you’ve read.

You can disaggree and pick up C2 Swordie. You do make valid points, except you seem to misunderstand the way damage works. The “hard” math of gungho is that it adds 100 phys damage when fully attributed. You think that’s a LOT of damage? Keep in mind that you want to focus on the late game, not the first 20 or 30 levels.

At lvl 145 I was already seeing elementalists drop meteors for 10k (20kcrit) dmg. I myself am doing 1-2k (3k crits) with skills. 100 Damage is just a fraction of that. 10% or less, and it will only matter less and less since it doesn’t scale.

I myself run swordsman c3. But mostly for the CC and immunity. And cause im going shinobi double slash will be good.

Point is, Swords C1 or C3. If indeed you dont wan’t peltasta. C2 is a poor middle ground.

Just a minor correction, magic can’t crit xD

Good point. Guess that meteor was just really strong lol

Its base damage though, plenty of physical attack abilities factor in the base damage for formula calculation, Look at it this way lets take a +14 Weapon = 200? ish base atk, Strength only adds small amounts of base attack per point but 150 strish tends to go a long way towards scaling and its literately the equivalent of 70 points in STR as far as damage is concerned. if you apply the modifiers and the base skill damage you can effectively increase your damage by 20-30% on certain things simply from 5 more points in that skill.

How is that a poor middle ground? as far as the CC immunity is concerned the downtime for concentration is only like 14 seconds as opposed to 20.
I would see this being more effective in a PvP/PvE orientated build.
Taking swordie c2 instead of c3 also free’s up a slot to maximize the effectiveness of one circle while providing yourself more utility in the

Oh boy you still don’t get it. I’ll try one last time.

Baes damage formula? Most skills don’t have a formula (zero in swordsman tree). Its just flat ATK from skill + your phys attack. So when I hit for 3k with my double slash, its mostly because of my stats that give me 900 damage (same auto attack damage), plus the skills 500 dmg, multiplied by two for crit. Add 100 phys attack from Gung ho AND WHOOP DEE EFFING DOO total damage of 200 more. 3k vs 3.2k.

Is it worth the 15 skill point investment and the 2 class ranks for the damage? Don’t compare str to the damage buff from gungho either. Gungho is JUST phys dmg. Str is much more. I agreed 0-30% of your auto attack at level 30 is great man. But there’s something called scaling, which neither gungho or concentration do.

CC immunity is from pain barrier. And its not the pain barrier you suffer for in C2. It’s the restrain proccing 20% vs C3 40%. Which is a freaking huge ass difference.

Hey it’s a poor middle ground imo and gungho / concentration damage is worthless late game imo. But, knock yourself out and try it. You seem to be able to do “hard” math.

Just a point, crit are +50% (damages x1,5), not twice.
Quite fun for people talking about hard math. :stuck_out_tongue:
/taunt off, except about the math, I agree with you. :wink:
Picking swordy C2 just for flat gung ho & concentrate is not a good choice for late levels.

Just a point, crit dmg depends on crit attack.Mine is 189, and dmg is just about double when i see the yellow vs whites.

Nice try :wink:

Crit attack is just a number added AFTER you multiply the damages by 1,5. Formula is far more complexe than you hough.
Since I am here to help you, and not to provoke you, I will give you an advice: read this before saying nosens. :wink:

try swordsman c2 you will probably see what people mean later on with your “usefulness” as a swordsman c2. Pain barrier is good, restrain is good but not enough unless you’re actually very lucky to trigger 20% most of the time.

Pelt> you get 18% evasion with guardian
Pelt> you get swashbuckling which you already mentioned, it isn’t only a party skill, it is even very helpful for solo on non aggro maps, as a barb>swash>warcry>seism is fun.
Pelt> you get blocking, which can be useful depending on what you will pick later on.

The only thing I find lacking is a weaker pain barrier.

Gungho attribute also currently sucks when maxed, i hope they change the ratio of the attribute.

Gung Ho only stays relevant because of it’s attribute, which you get at C1. The difference between level 5 and 10 of Gung Ho is only 15 Physical Attack.

Concentrate is only flat damage and while it becomes better with multi-hit skills it is still mostly relevant because of the attribute which is also available at C1. It is also not as relevant at higher levels because you will be seeing 5k~15k hits depending on the build and at that point using Concentrate or not doesn’t make any significant difference (most people stop using it at higher levels).

The extra duration on Pain Barrier is a more solid choice for going into C2, but it doesn’t stop hard CC like Stun, Freeze, Sleep, etc. So overall not too useful against the things that do matter. It doesn’t make any difference in many scenarios.

Restrain is used for very specific scenarios but if you plan to use it then it is better to maximize it’s potential with a higher level on it.

In the end C2 doesn’t really add much of anything and when compared to the benefits of Peltasta it loses by a huge margin.