Tree of Savior Forum

Players United - The Bot Destroyer Arena

General Discussion
#21

First, I stated at the beginning that this is not a cure that will solve our bot problem, but that it will help filter bots and make IMC’s job easier in locating and banning bots. (i.e this guy has been transported to the BDA mutiple times…maybe I should investigate him or this guy was temp banned, is he a bot? then perm ban)

Second, Bots can be programmed to solve captchas and puzzles that require clicking, typing, and moving, but I have yet to see a Bot program able to do both. Do complex movements (jump onto consecutive platforms) and do quests on their own.

Third, So we do nothing? What is your solution?

#22

I agree that there will be those who abuse the report function. However, it was included that a person can’t report the same person for an entire week. Should this time frame be increase to 1-month cooldown? maybe in one month, people will also cool off lol

Also, it takes around 2mins to complete the BDA and you get a BDA token (which allows u to skip the dungeon entirely) which means every 12 people reporting you = 2mins of your time. I do see the problem if an entire guild goes on a reporting spree against another guild. However, I do think the guild who is the vitcim can easily tell its guild members to immediately press screenshot when they see mutiple enemy members approaching them in case they do a mass report drive by. Send these screenshots to IMC and can get enemy guild temp/perm ban for abusing report function

#23

the main thing is that bad players will sploit it, sadlly.

" (ex. you cant just roll up as a party of 5 and report another team to take their grinding spot, but even if u manage to grab a 6th player it takes under 2mins to get out of it so…", seriously? This 6th player will be there aways, 100%.
Picture it: a group of 6 friends hanging out in klaipeda. They decide to fool around and report random players to go for that little journey. Just awful.
You completelly forgot that this is a RPG, imagine you in a gvg or something like that and they deide to spolit this machanic?? This JUST cand happen.
Your intention was good, but i think that must have a better solution with no stress for the players, since this is the major task for a game.

#24

Read reply to Arkova.

Also, sooner or later these “bad players” will be banned for false reporting. Should include something that can ID the person(s) who put you into BDA, like the moment u get transported to BDA it should flash the 6 players who put you there. Screen shot it, get rid of the anonymity. Take the pic with names and send ticket to IMC, get people who are “bad players” exploiting it banned. If victim wants to do a revenge report, they are also guilty because the other player can do the same (screenshot when names flashed and send ticket to IMC) This will make the report function double-edged and more legit because you can also be banned for false reporting.

This way GvG drama people or “bad players” can’t abuse the report function without repercussions.

EDIT: If it was me and I got wrongfully sent to BDA and the names of the 6 were up there. Screen shot 6 names, 2mins BDA, a new 6 enemy guild members does same thing, Screen shot another 6 names, use BDA token to leave BDA. Go make a support ticket and attach 2 screenshots with 12 names, wait for IMC to investigate and punish 12 players. All this will take around 5mins of your time (+time it takes for IMC to review them - which shouldnt take long because you probably don’t have a history of being sent to BDA) and you now have 12 less people to “drama” with and fight against in the next guild war.

5 mins of my time for 12 permanent bans? #worth (probably be some heftly punishment…seeing as how IMC is rekting the whole Auction House + 1:1 trade to crack down on RMT + ban hammering people who Z botting + 5 of the top 10 ranked players banned due to abuse/expoit/Zbot/etc = they have a Zero Tolerance Policy)

#25

This is a bad idea. Here is why:

  1. Players who are bad at jumping or reading will be punished unfairly.

  2. Players who don’t speak the language of the game will be punished unfairly.

  3. Bots can be programmed to react to a game prompt (for example, your area changing abruptly). I know this because I have seen bots make use of channel changing, so they’re clearly able to react to it.

  4. Bots can be programmed to perform the tasks needed in the arena and then return to their normal botting routine.

  5. It’s possible to analyze the game files to figure out: 1. which NPC to talk to, based on which dialog was loaded, 2. where the NPC was spawned. So that text prompt idea wouldn’t work.

Would it stump bots for a couple of days before they figure out how to circumvent this? Sure.

But ultimately IMC would spend weeks programming this for a couple of days of delay at best.

#26

  1. Read reply to Uterus

  2. This is the international server where English is the World language. Everything in this game is in English, if you have a problem in this game you write a ticket in English and you receive help back in English. Offical announcements are made in English. If this is unfair, IMC can implement a translation => enter BDA, receive instructions in? Choose: English, Korean, Portuguese, French, etc.

3/4/5 + Comment about stumping bots for a couple days etc,etc
The bots are STILL being sent to the BDA, as stated above the BDA is not suppose to be the cure to bots, it is meant to FILTER bots by having players report them. Meaning even if a bot is able to accomplish said tasks, they are still being sent to the BDA, this can be used as a measuring tool for IMC to see which accounts need to be looked at first.

Each BDA trip = 6 reports. The more a bot is sent there, the higher priority it will be flagged and banned by IMC

#27

Its a cool thought but there are a few people out there like me who could never do it.

Its why i never pvp or buy platformer games >.> i am beyond horrible lol.

I dont think i have ever won a pvp battle in any mmo actually rofl.

I seriously doubt i would ever be reported but still >.<

#28

Read reply to Uterus about not being able to jump. You do more dodging in a Boss fight than this simple jump task in BDA + there is zero penalty for you failing to jump onto platforms.

You are not a Bot, so therefore you will not be reported. If you are wrongfully reported, the names of the 6 who put you there will be shown above you in the BDA. Screenshot those names, send ticket to IMC that you have be wrongfully accused and IMC will investigate and deal with exploiters/abusers. We both know how IMC feels about exploiters/abusers.

#29

This actually sounds fun xD

#30

Personally i think a simple randomized captcha would do it just as fine,

Not the old style of them but the new one where bots can analyze and guess what letters and numbers are in it but the new one where they cant even if they look at a clear crisp image of it.

Cant remember the name though.

Add like a 3 strike your out system for normal people not to get screwed by it and tada fixed.

I think its fairly simple although i can see that as an annoying mini process.

Like once an hour or for each report but not during dungeons etc.

There are captchas so good that it literally makes it impossible for anyone but a human to ever put the right code in.

But it is a game i suppose and a captcha would make things a bit less immersive however on the other side it would get rid of every single bot that was ever made and then the devs could turn the market and all the anti bot stuff back to make the game more enjoyable.

Just my thoughts though.

Btw any mini game can be scripted perfectly, There are some mmo scripts so advanced that they can solo 10 player dungeons in mmos and never even get hit so thinking this mini game will work just isn’t true.

A good scripter plays your mini bot game like 10 - 50 times and sees exactly what to do and what happens in every situation and codes that and you get your idea bypassed completely.

Thinking it wont be is just wrong. Hell they will even hack into tos’s main database if they have to and yes that has happened many times before. Just look at wildstar.

At least with the new age captchas they make things so random and with so much stuff that only a human eye can tell what the code is.

Bleh in game gms would easily ban all spammers but for some reason no mmos ever want to even consider having at least 1 person go around banning all the spammers and bots and the ones that do do it have much better games for it.

Well anyway thats my two cents and im sure there are flaws but its a simple, easy and real solution to get them out of the game and put all the anti bot stuff that makes the game more annoying to play like the market stuff and dungeon limits etc away in exchange for a single minor annoyance.

#31

Random Captcha hinders everyone’s playing experience. Current method is more direct, mutiple players have to target you rather than having system randomly finding you.

Include that “new captcha feature where they cant even if they look at clear crisp image of it” into the Dog Leash Quest in the BDA. If it is as good as you say then it will stop, trap, and temp ban the bots (15min limit in BDA before temp ban) Not to mention another positive of the BDA is that it immediately removes said bot away from the field

All comments about good scipters and such is fine. Read reply to driumyrvak. The point of this is not to kill off all the bots, its to filter them. Even if they pass the test, they are still marked with X number of trips to BDA. More trips to the BDA will flag bot as priority for IMC to look over.

I completely agree with having a designated GM in-game to do this. Hopefully, in the future IMC will have enough money to hire a GM for this specific job and not have banning bots/abusers as a side job

#32

You are so unaware of what programmer can do…
I bet that in less than a day I can make a bot who WILL solve those puzzles with a success rate of 75%+. Those are all really easy tasks. The client memory is accessible.
It would only stop the ‘bad’ botters. Enterprises like MMOtank.com who makes a living out of bots will put the time to make the bots solve it.

And it WILL be player abused. 100%. 6 friends can move around and send people to the BOT thing.

(I’m a software engineer)

#33

No everyone in the game would have to do the captcha every hour not randomly.

Its not a bad thought mind you but you also need to remember when the game goes f2p there will be tens of thousands of bots and they can make a new bot account every single second literally. the number of trips to your arena wont do a thing to their numbers cause each site will have hundreds with more being made every single hour.

If they didn’t then botters couldn’t make enough currency to sell to people,

Your underestimating them is my point.

Hell i expect a nonstop scrolling chat when it launches to the point where you cant even read anything much less talk.

#34

Read reply to driumyrvak

BDA is not suppose to be the cure to bots, it is meant to FILTER bots by having players report them. You get tagged each time you enter BDA. So by all means, program something that allows you to beat it. You are still flagged.
Higher # of BDA trips = higher chance IMC will look at you.

“Include the 6 names who put you in BDA in the header while you are in the Arena. So in case of false reporting or exploting the report function to place a real player(s) in BDA, the player can screenshot these names and send them to IMC.”

#35

This honestly sounds like a ton of work for IMC.

I do really like their current system where, the more successful you are at reporting bots the more weight your report has. Same goes for abusing the system. The more you use it to report for things other than bots and gold sellers, the more your weight goes down. I hear possibly even negative.

#36

Tree of Savior took a ton of work to create. Creating a “puzzle dungeon” is insignificant compared to creating and maintenancing Tree of Savior.

#37

Have you ever created a puzzle dungeon for an MMORPG?

#38

I have created a Puzzle program, but I haven’t created one for an MMORPG.

Have you created an MMORPG on the scale of Tree of Savior? Have you ever created a puzzle dungeon for an MMORPG?

#39

Are you asking this to support a theory or out of curiosity?
[edit] The reason I asked is because I was curious, because you make it sound like it’s super easy.
So I just wanted to see what experience you had in creating puzzle type areas for MMORPGs.
I can’t tell you if you took offense or not to my response. x’D

Because I can give a very extensive run down on how things work. :smiley:

#40

Curiosity, I keep an open mind. Please explain