So uhm, I just reset skill points on my Peltasta who has Lv6 Umbo Blow/Rim Blow attributes for High Guard…
…and they still work just fine with Lv1 Umbo/Rim.
Didn’t IMC fix this? 
Warlock (UPDATE)
So I have done extensive testing and a LOT of math, using IMC’s new damage formula and confirming that all the numbers they’ve given are correct, and it seems Mastema is something of an anomaly. The tooltip between Lvl 1 and Lvl 10 is 1044 to 1568… But I reverse-engineered the math and found that Lvl 10 Mastema seems to do 1884% on its initial hit, followed by 24 hits (from Phantom Pain) of 575%.
It’s no wonder Pole of Agony could never hope to compare, even with the ideal situation of a monster walking out of the pole to trigger the debuff (which in my opinion should apply even if the Pole runs out with the enemy still standing on it). Is Mastema bugged to have way too much damage?
I guess the feedback here is: Mastema appears to be doing far too much damage. Pole of Agony isn’t even appealing to pick up anymore. Consider making the debuff apply when the pole ends to things that were still inside the area of effect rather than requiring things to run out of the pole to trigger the MUCH more substantial debuff damage. This would promote a careful choice between the two skills depending on whether you want sustained damage or instant burst. I’d love to be able to get both to 10, but you need 1 point for Evil Sacrifice and Invocation seems like a necessity not for the AFK farming element, but for the +dark damage attribute and Theurge needs to be 10 for grinding down a boss on a low cooldown.
1 Like
-Priest C3: Iron Body don’t need if you have Con but Blessing is better now.
-Monk: Same damage but, more Attack Speed, you can make more damage per second. With Monstrance with 75 DEX have a perfect attack speed.
-Inquisidor: Pear are insta-kill in PvP.
-Corsair: Need barbarian C2 to be Corsair C2 or C3… Frenzy + Doble work perfect, and no need much DEX for good Attack speed. Corsair now work perfect in you like go to normal attacks (with dagger o Pistol).
-Highlander: Great damage, with Concentrate a monster (in special with 2 hands Swords).
Why do you say that dark theurge must be 10?
I was w3ele3lock2 before the reset event with pole 1, mastema 1, dt 10, invo 8 (I was class lv 5) and today I reseted to pole 10 mastema 10 dt 1. I have leftover points, but there is no skill to level.
Dt is a 0 damage single target skill and invocation is not worth now that monsters killed by the spirits does not create more spirits.
Dievdirbys:
Statue of Goddess Laima: Laima’s new way of working makes the skill really questionable. The CD reduction is perfect, yes but paralizet mobs even when it is at lvl one? I think something went wrong there, A bug like Zaibas taking some time to start doing damage. You can’t put it around like we used to do because it’ll make Dg’ing, Dps check, bosses killing just harder. And PvP just stupid (when out of dispellers and stuff)
Carve Owl: Owls’s damage is miserable. When I saw it dealing around 1k5 damage with a Int based build, it broke my heart. I think that they should get some damage back - I didn’t test it with high attributes but was using a +8 Windia Rod and lv 11(or even 12 with Henge Stone with a c3Druid) owls were dealing that.
The rest of the Dievdirbys’s skills I belive that are doing fine.
Druid c3:
Carnivory is kind of better now but Lycanthropy+Henge Stone is underwhelming for a hank 8 class that only has 2 skill out of 8 to deal damage and only one that do some suport (wich normally is ignored by the rest of the party members).
Without a good low rank class to compensate it’s damage, doesn’t seem very attractive. I don’t know…
I tryed Sadhu+druid but I coudn’t do it. Krivis nor Diev are in a good state atm. Full Spr build with Priest seems the less harmfull build but it’s buffs doesn’t do much. I got bored after me 2nd dangeun.
And even if only one works properly, only one, doens’t it mean that something is wrong?
3 Likes
Idk how to explain but cannoneer feels weird.
Like he said, the sp consume doesn’t go along with the damage dealed. Doesn’t seem worth it.
And I don’t know wich archers classes are doing a good job now, aside Falconer3
1 Like
SR3 feels…bad.
As someone who played QS3>SR3 before the patch, here are my feelings on SR afterwards.
Concentrated Fire and Wild Shot: Why would I ever take Concentrated Fire? It does less damage, takes more time, and costs more skill points than Wild Shot.And even Wild Shot seems to have horrendous damage. While before the patch I was hitting 120k~ with a single Concentrated Fire using a +5 Manamana, afterwards I’m lucky to hit 20k~ with a +10 Manamana using Wild Shot. While Mob HPs at my level range took a good 50% cut, the 80% cut to my burst damage kind of makes it irrelevant.
Limacon: Ok, maybe I was spoiled by Running Shot, but this just feels incredibly weak. I didn’t use Limacon prepatch, so I have nothing to compare it to but Running Shot, which I understand isn’t really a fair comparison, but here it goes anyways. RS has a 200% modifier for 5 skill points, compared to Limacon’s 100% for 15 skill points. Already I see a big problem. Yes, Limacon has a damage attribute, but even maxed (lol) it only puts you up to 150%. And sure, it has a splash attribute to hit an extra mob, so in a mob it may be slightly more efficient. But single target damage is objectively worse, and anyone who’s serious about RS will get a Didel GC, putting them up to 260% - requiring level 60 Limacon attribute to even compete against mobs.
But okay, Limacon is not Running Shot, so let’s compare it on its own merits. At level 277, using a +10 Manamana, with a full Dex build, Limacon is hitting for about 2k~. With a 1:1 Str:Dex build, I get about 3k. Even with double Sissel, Crit rate headgears, swift step, and a level 6 Green gem in the Manamana, my crit rate is negligible, so we can mostly ignore that. That means to fight mobs at my level range, I’m taking about 20 shots to kill one monster with some STR, and about 30 without any. Using the dex build, I actually get more damage from my shop buffs then my own skill gives me. It’s too low for grinding to be any sort of effective, and its horrendous for fighting any bosses.
Yes I have seen videos of Limacon performing extremely well, but the vast majority of that performance seems to be buff-stacking. Sure, if I get Sacrament + Cafrisun + Enchant Fire + a 1500 Blessing, I’ll do decent damage single target, and absolutely shred mobs of normal monsters. None of that damage is actually mine, AND it requires me to go with basically no armor. Limacon seems to me to be the only saving grace of SR at the moment, and even that is just because it is a convenient vehicle for outputting Blessing damage.
Caracole: I’ve heard good things about Caracole, but I haven’t tested it myself yet. Frankly though, I doubt it’ll be enough to make much of a difference unless it has a hidden AoE Ratio boost in it. Hitting multiple targets with the Splash attribute sounds like it could be a viable way to deal damage, but on a 35s cooldown, its just not enough to carry you anywhere. Especially not when it still has half the modifier of Wild Shot. Again though, I haven’t tested this skill personally, so if I’m misjudging it please by all means let me know.
Evasive Action: This is a really cool skill in theory, but I feel like it just doesn’t play out. It wasn’t worth the skill points pre-patch because all other SR skills were very strong, but now its not worth the points because it by itself is too weak. 10% extra evasion isn’t going to have any noticeable impact, and while there aren’t exactly many places that can use the points better, there’s enough that its not worth taking. The minus movement speed still works as a cool interaction for Retreat Shot, but the reduction is actually too small to make much of a difference, especially when you can just spam oblique/heavy shot to slow yourself down. Though speaking of Retreat Shot…
Retreat Shot and Marching Fire: This is where the real pain came for me. Pre-patch, these skills were incredibly strong, basically being the defining skills for SR. But now? Before the patch, I was hitting maybe 6k or 7k per crit with these skills (using a +5 Manamana), non-crits dealing about 4k to 5k, With the tough mobs in my level range having 100k~150k HP, that made them effective means of dispatching them, even with the penalty of having to find a wall to hug or face tank just to try and squeeze most of the 30~ hits in, praying that no CC came my way to interrupt. Now, with a +10 Manamana, I’m hitting 2k to 3k, virtually never critting. With the mobs around my level having about 60k HP, I’m able to kill them with a cast IF I land every single hit. Meanwhile I have to face tank for 10 seconds, getting ■■■■ on by the armor and evasion changes, and for each KD or CC that hits me I lose 40%~ of my damage.
I can literally do more damage by dropping a Broom Trap and running away. And Broom Trap lasts longer, hits more mobs, has a 50% crit rate attribute, has a better armor modifier…the only penalty to it is the awkward animation and the fact that using it demounts you, which strips Limacon - irrelevant if I just drop SR. Retreat Shot and Marching Fire feel like they’ve been nerfed to bring them in line with other similar AoE skills, but those nerfs didn’t seem to take into account the huge drawbacks the skills already had built in. They were very strong before, but they had significant weaknesses that kept them in check. Now they feel incredibly weak, and are still very punishing to use. You are really better off just circling the mob with Limacon than trying to position and tank long enough to use these skills.
I really love SR, and I will probably stick with SR3 even despite everything I’ve written here but…no matter how I look at it, I just don’t see a way out for this class. No part of the class really stands out as powerful, at any rank, which makes it really hard to think of builds that work well because rather than finding another class that complements it, any class I add just…does better. I don’t feel any need to actually use the SR skills. Adding the fact that you have to be mounted and use a pistol, severely restricting what classes you can actually combo with, taking SR feels more like a punishment than a legitimate choice.
SR as a class used to be a competent solo and excellent group choice for almost any content. Now, it can marginally get by soloing quests, and relying entirely on a gimmicky shop-buff based build can make you an effective dungeon farmer (until you run out of blessing, which happens very fast), but it never really adds anything to a party and is abysmal against any sort of boss.
It’s a shame, because from what I’ve played on my other characters, the combat changes have, in general, been great. I haven’t had a chance to spend a lot of time testing, but for the most part things feel really good - heck, even my level 250 Templar feels stronger, and I thought for sure he’d be a throw away. But even though I plan to keep my SR3 as an SR, I just don’t see any viable use for him. He can’t do Saalus, he can’t do world bosses, he can barely level himself…the only reason to use him seems to be as a way to get Blessing damage out.
So I guess after all that complaining, I should add some thoughts of what I think could fix it. These are just based on my first impressions, since I haven’t spent a lot of time testing, but what I would like to see added would be something like the following:
Concentrated Fire: MUCH higher damage modifier. While the skill uses less hits than Pre-Patch, it still takes a while to get those hits out, and so is vulnerable to any sort of knock back or knock down. As such, I think just tuning the damage way up is enough to fix it. You could also add more hits per skill level, so it looks like Pre-Patch, balancing the high damage with a longer “channel” basically, but I don’t feel like it needs that kind of balance at the moment.
Caracole: Again, I haven’t tested this skill yet personally, so I don’t have much to say. I could see it being a nice burst if it had built in AoE ratio to go with the Splash attribute though. EDIT: I’ve been testing this now, it does seem to have a built in AoE ratio. This skill might be in a good place already.
Limacon: Give us back the piercing effect that pistols lose when we use this skill and make all three of those hits Splash with the attribute. Then tune up the damage a little bit. Make it do enough damage that its worth using even if you don’t have Blessing and four extra lines of damage. And don’t worry about this change making the gimmick build obscenely strong, because the extra hits will absolutely shred your Blessing count. Shop Blessing would be effectively useless for anything longer than 5 minutes of fighting.
Retreat Shot: WAY higher damage. Yes, it feels very strong on paper (147% x 33 hits x 15 targets), but you will almost never be able to maximize - or even efficiently utilize - that damage. I feel like if this did two or three times more damage, it might be in a good spot - maybe a little less because of the huge number of targets it can hit.
Wild Shot: This needs something to distinguish it from Concentrated Fire. Personally, I would tune up its damage to make it worth casting in the first place, then I would probably either add an attribute or just an inherent AoE Ratio to it. The goal would be to use it as a fast mob-clear: not as high impact as Concentrated Fire or Retreat Shot, but something quick you can snap off to cut down a small mob, or thin a large one.
Evasive Action: I would probably change this to give a flat % to dodge, rather than an evasion boost, maybe something like 15% per skill level. So 75% at level 5/90% with Divine Might. Then I would slash the duration to a flat 11 or 12 seconds, and make it cut your movement speed by 15 or 20 (or maybe something like reducing it to 10), and probably bump the CD to at least 60 seconds. This would change it from a dumb evasion boost that no one needs to a powerful combo/enabler skill to protect you and increase your effective damage while using Retreat Shot/Marching Fire, without making it so strong as to be a reliably sustainable defensive option.
Marching Fire: Like Retreat Shot, this needs a HUGE damage boost. Much more so I’d say. The difference between this and Retreat Shot is that Retreat Shot lets you…retreat. In order to really maximize damage out of Marching Fire, you really have to stay still, which means tanking a lot of hits with no real means of protecting yourself. Add to that the fact that, unlike with Retreat Shot, you’re effectively silenced while you wait for the 10 second channel to finish - which again you lose a huge portion of if you are CC’d in any way - creates a situation where you need a big damage modifier to justify the high difficulty in getting your on-paper damage to show up in game. Also give it a damage attribute for goodness sake. There was barely a reason for not having it before the patch, but now not having one is just ridiculous.
So those are my thoughts on SR. I’d love to hear other people’s opinions as well, since I haven’t had the time to test a lot in the past week, and I’m not sure I’ll have the heart to keep testing my SR with how poor he performs in every category.
3 Likes
Krivis:
The class, besides some utility skills (daino for example), is completely botched. Zaibas is bugged and when it hits, the damage is underwhelming.
Bokor:
Zombies, even on full SPR, do not deal enough damage. Damballa is a nice burst, nothing to complain about.
Effigy was a filler skill and should have been left like that, I personally don’t like the overhead and cd change.
Miko:
I have Miko on my priest and it has the only damage dealing skills besides heal and cure.
Now only blessing helps dealing damage with Miko’s skills and given the pain one has to go through to get that class I find the nerf unjustified.
Priest:
It gives a massive boost (via blessing) to all cleric skills, helping the most underwhelming ones on higher level content (290 dungeon or 315 HG for example).
Plague doctor:
Nothing to complain about.
Elementalist:
Nothing to complain about.
Warlock:
Simply underwhelming for a R7/R8. Mastema is the only decent skill.
Corsair (3):
Used outside HG and dungeons, the damage is ok for farming. In dungeons and HG, it’s a struggle with this class.
Overall:
-
SP/HP consumption is way too high for some classes, you can’t chug 3-4 potions every 30 seconds, it’s not fun.
-
Some of the problems listed above are due to the fact that we don’t have the latest patch and I wonder why we didn’t get it from the beginning. I hope we get a time extension on the reset event.
2 Likes
Wizard is pretty solid. Very close to a complete class.
Buffs are still annoying to keep up.
10 point Surespell does not pass cost/benefit analysis.
Lethargy, now that it is good and matters, needs a buff to the area that it applies to.
Sleep does not seem to work on some mage mobs now, in addition to flying mobs. OK, fine, but you really gotta start mentioning things like that in the tooltips.
Magic Missile could use a little more umph on bosses/single targets, and a little less animation CC.
Linker. LOL, Linker.
Dramatic hit count reduction on JP is also a tangential nerf to every multi hit skill of every class.
Great synergy with summons: Necro’s skeletons eat through the hit count in seconds, without doing any significant damage. Good times, good times.
On the bright side, Physical Link feels useful now, with incoming damage having some actual range between “1” and “dead”. Still way too easy to break though, and completely useless when soloing. Should work with summons, at least the big ones.
Necro. Meh.
Flesh Cannon got nerfed, making C1~C2 even more of a suffering than it already was.
Summons are still bad. Little damage, little utility. At least make them hold some aggro, FFS.
Seems like Gather Corpse got quite a bit better, though I’m experiencing a horrible delay and CC after every cast. Not sure if it’s by design or just server lag. Should be as fast as current Energy Bolt to be viable.
Running the exact same damage formulas and numbers as with Pole and Mastema, Theurge reliably yields about 70% the damage that Pole does on a single target (like a boss), but with half the cooldown time, making it more reliable for consistent damage over a fight. Pole only yields optimal damage if the enemy walks out of it before its duration ends.
I actually feel that pole> dt in new patch.
mastema is a given top dps skill in wl.
but pole can hit multiple units at the same time and it’s a bit safer as well to use in et. (drop pole in between waves instead of having to dt and run into mobs)
probably more on playstyle and preference though so yea. perhaps because ele and wl’s mastema skills got buffed so much that it feels like dt is left in the dust.
I would actually lvl invocation > dt now because it has more usability in mobbing. it is especially strong in et now and although it does not spawn new spirits if old spirits kill mobs, it is a handy tool in cutting down the hp of other mobs.
invocation spirits for me do around 20-23k dmg per pop of the spirit.
atm my skill build is 10 mastema 10 pole 9 invocation and 1 dt. the 1 point in dt is for earth tower gimmick.
They actually buffed Evil Sacrifice to do all hits per spirit of DT rather than just once like pre-patch. So you don’t actually have to rub your face against a boss anymore, you can simply send your Theurge spirits at a boss and it will do all 15 hits.
Also I would still invest a value point in Invocation simply for the Dark Property boost and to have it.
Prior to Patch:
lvl 194-ish
70-ish str, 26 con, 5 int, 32 spr, 165-ish dex
Archer C-2, Ranger C-3, Falconer C-1
Gears were attainable thru quests/craft/market <-- I rarely do instance dungeons because its hard for me to kill stuff alone, and impatient to wait for a party.
† Am able to kill monsters decently even if attack slow, but at least I can spam some skills so I’m just fine.
Post Patch
† Same build, same rank, same skills - hard to kill high HP monsters, noticed increased attack speed, Some Ranger and Archer spammable skills now have a usage limit of 5 before cooldown (oblique shot, heavy shot)
† I get the feeling my ranger skills have been nerfed really bad. Before I can at least 1-shot or 2-shot a mob using Barrage lvl 15 at lvl80+ enhanced attribute, NOW I have to spam a lot of other skills together with barrage before same monsters i’ve been hunting prior to patch die, and even then there’s some waiting for all my skills to cooldown on my keystrokes before I can attack skills again. Not fun 
† I changed to one with High Str stat medium dex, and same con and spr, and there’s barely any change in damage when using skills, just that I hit harder when I do normal attaks. Difference I noticed tho with higher STR, is higher Falcon damage on Hovering - which I really like. Also understandably with medium dex comes to no evasion, which recieving damage hurts.
† Tried High Dex next time with medium str same con and int - yes I can evade, yes, I attack fast, yes now and then I get a 1k crit, but c’mon it takes too long to kill a moyabu - even with skills being spammed. Spent more on condensed sp potions
- Someone please fix the ranger and archer skills. Am so unhappy with the damage and result. I hate the 5-usage before cooldown on oblique shot and heavy shot (archer skill)
Sapper
Awkward to use and shitty damage pre-patch and post-patch. When is IMC going to rework this class and make it feel good to play like Trap Hunters from RO? Those were pretty fun. I love the concept of Sappers, but it just feels so clumsy in this gameplay. Here’s some suggestions.
Make Stakes (arguably great damage conceptually) do damage without moving enemies in and out of it. Have it do its damage every 1 second that an enemy is in it, since they don’t last terribly long as it is. If this means scaling back the damage so it doesn’t melt bosses, so be it. Just make it so that it does persistent damage.
Make Punji Trap aimable after planting it, like based on the direction you’re facing when it triggers. This would make it far less burdensome to combo with traps like Spike Shooter and actually allow you to shred mobs without having to kite a mob away from or toward an area where you set up your perfect trap layout.
Make Claymore Trap a circular area instead of a one-directional cone, making it able to be used without a headache of kiting and positioning. Claymore in Ragnarok was beautiful, bring it back.
Give Collar Bomb the same treatment as Claymore, letting you trigger the bomb when you use the skill again rather than relying on there being more than one target available. Placing it on the wrong mob, like a ranged mob that won’t move where you need it to just brings a migraine on.
1 Like
Flu Flu’s cooldown is too high
Perspective Distortions range is too small. Plus it drains mana like a fiend.
Indulgentia is absolutely horrendous
Krivis needs more SPR scaling.
High Anchoring is really bad
time Bomb Arrow’s radius is annoyingly small.
Bounce Shot isn’t good enough
Would like an Enhance for Enchant Fire and Enchant Lightening.
Sorcerer does not feel right at all.
Transcribed from a related thread that’s a bit too similar to this one.
2 Likes
anyone mentioned the low summon dmg from Sorcerer ? and the low dmg from the summon skills ?
Here are my feedback from the classes i have tested 
Paladin
Conversion - the converted monsters are very weak and have bad AI
OR - maybe we can create a new skill for Paladin? Heres my Idea:
Hammers Of Deities - In an area in front of you summon 5 spiritual hammers to smash the ground in front of you many times over 4 seconds, dealing physical strike damage with each hit.
Smite - Decent Damage but the SP cost is very high compared to its damage, i think it should have 50% less SP, but a stun chance attribute which increases it back up to 100%. because right now its not worth going 15 skill level bcuz it just adds ALOT of SP cost and too little damage per skill level.
Sadhu
Transmit Prana - theres a glitch where you can double buff yourself, we dont know if its intended or not
Miko
Overall deserves a damage buff, or nerf the prequest for miko.
Krivis
Zaibas - severely weak and bugged, needs a huge buff and fix and maybe a nerf to stormcalling instead
Aukuras - maybe melstis could keep the buff on while youre outside the area?
Divine Stigma - Deals a Holy Property DoT as well as the already existing effects, and instead of flat amount increase stats by a % per skill level and nerf duration.
Bokor
Reduce cost for weelchair and giant zombie by a few attribute points
About swordclass, i play a lot with pelta/rodel/murm/templa
Pelta= its awesome, the damage its ok, def desbuff for umblo trust its so strong, only down for the classe is rim blow continue actually useless until they have atrib to cancel the annoing knockback and perhaps a damage buff when hit stunned targets(remove the frozen/petrified one).
Shield lob its tottaly bad, need be remake.
Butterfly better damage?/new bonus damage?
Langort its… Strange hard to switch with class, perhaps some overheat help
Rode= better much better than before.most part of the skills its good only annoing is shield push knockback actually disturb you team much more than help with the damage desbuf how need a buff(25%!!!) make armor desbuff not stack can be good to… Targe smash its a point yet, i see like the strongest atk in rodel arsenal so need be right? New bonus damage against knockdown enemy even need reduce the base damage can be a good call
Murm= closed to perfect no one issue.
Templar= battle order buff scale in % perhaps
Mortal slash more quick? Its so slow take about 2~3s to make all the move lol!?!?!
More combat oriented skills.
What would be nice if an attribute was added that let fireballs not explode on contact but last for a shorter duration and then explode afterwards, so that kino/linker/sage/cryo/alchemist(etc can take advantage of them.
Fireball: Stabilized - Fireball will not explode for 15(??) secs after placement
or change
FireballL: Burn Debuff - Fireball will not explode but causes burn to enemies with in range
something like those should work well with other classes for combos