Tree of Savior Forum

Neutrality is a griefing tool

General Discussion
#21

@PrinceMark Re-read the OP, which answers most of your questions already. Guilds which don’t want to participate in PvP don’t have to leave towers out, and I already suggested a compromise safe zone for hangouts. I explained some methods of harassment in the OP.

Without neutrality, other guilds can remove the quest-obstructing tower right away. Reports won’t cut it; they’re too shorthanded to police existing issues like shops blocking the Orsha statue. Since you didn’t read the post and you’re asking invalid questions, I’m going to stop right here.

Then they should make the areas around queueing points count as towns to prevent this. Neutrality alone isn’t a complete solution to lowbie queue camping.

  1. If a guild declines a formal war, there’s no cost with neutrality, so they’re going to go with the “you’re a griefing scumbag preying on weaklings” routine you can see from PrinceMark while they hide from all PvP. Attackable towers provide objectives to fight over and move things to the battlefield instead of empty insults. An example of this happened recently when certain people started making those kinds of accusations towards guilds they didn’t like, and the “weaklings” supposedly being “bullied” won on the battlefield while the accusers failed to support them and ran away. Nobody took them seriously after that.

  2. Towers can be attacked in the middle of the night by surprise, so you’d need several times more members than are allowed in one guild to defend a tower all the time. This makes alt guild hit and run tactics easy, and the problem is when you show up and try to launch a counterattack, they’re already neutral by then.

  3. The amount of trash talk and how serious it is depends on what happens in game. From ToS so far and other games, we’ve seen the situation improves when a game facilitates decisive battles.

  4. We don’t know when the guild battle system will be in or its details. Some speculate it will only be 5v5. If they put guild battles in (or even arenas) before making these changes to guild wars, that would’ve been better than what we’re looking at now.

If you don’t join a guild, you lose out on the benefit of being in a guild, so there’s a cost to that tactic. Status symbols matter to most PvPers. As for formal requests for war or organizing arenas between guilds, the 3 war limit restricts that. It’s a really low number.

Yeah, this is the kind of solution they should encourage.

1 Like
#22

They didn’t implemented it yet on Ktos, they pushed it back.

#23

Agreed on all points.

IMC. Look.
Do you want your game to actually succeed?

Stop placing limitations on avenueus where players can have fun.
Protect the carebears for all I care and allow them to have a place to be safe.

But rewards for being a sucessful world PvP guild should be there.
The fun of being a world PvP guild hould not be limited.
Why even impliment a 3 war decleration limit?

#24

There are no rewards to the current GvG.

They do plan to reward guilds that participate in GvG. Please take a look at the link I provided in my previous post.

#25

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#26

PvP in this game is just bad players with psychokino, cataphract, scout because they can’t handle the possibility of an opponent being able to fight back.

Oh and killing people during loading screens for the same reason- also during dungeon queues.

Towers have so little hp that they break before a defender can even go through a loading screen. Tower breaking consists of leaving people at the spawn to grief would-be defenders while they’re loading.

Basically pvp doesn’t matter at all until they make psychokino raise and gravity pole not work on player characters and fix loading so I couldn’t care less.

#27

they should do this:
neutral guild can not join the guild battle.

[pt]
Eles deveriam fazer isso:
Guildas neutras não podem participar de “Guild Battle”.
[/pt]

[offtopic]
Aceito sugestões de tradução…
[/offtopic]

#28

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#29

Because GoonSwarm style mass war decs are ~such~ a fun environment.

#30

I love the changes for the most part.
Open world pvp/gvg is unbalanced and completely pointless as is.

This game, to me, does not feel built to be an open world pvp game & I don’t think it was intended to be — which is why this change is being made. Not being able to have a guild tower ever put down for more than a few minutes was not a proper solution.

I mean a lot of this is opinion, what I am saying & the things you’ve listed as well — what you’re calling exciting I find annoying & upsetting.

My only gripe with these guild changes is that for people who do (for whatever reason…) like OW gvg in this game — there is still no point to doing it aside from the sake of doing it. (during my time in gvg, disallowing others from having a hangout/farm/guild-events felt more like bullying than a reward.)

I’m glad guilds will no longer be able to force an infinite number of unwilling participants into their pvp shenanigans. :^)

“people can get PvP rewards like a hangout and dilgele farm without participating.”

I don’t believe these should be ~pvp rewards~, they are meant to be guild rewards for having made that worthless templar.

Just my 2cents, coming from a more pve oriented player who would rather do instanced pvp on the side. I understand the people who are upset with these changes are the ones who love pvp, & we will probably never see eye to eye because of that — so no point arguing w/ me over it! Just posting a differing view in case imc reads these. :yum:

2 Likes
#31

Give us back our civil war !

#32

Carebear patch.

The PVP players are forced to do PVE/Remake because of meta requirements.
The PVE players should be forced to do PVP as well or simply don’t put up their towers. I wouldn’t mind neutrality but I would like to see some sort of penalties.

Klaipeda is filled with carebear guilds.

#33

Probably IMC, just want this game to be full of robot…

Where, all player would play this game in routine:
Dungeon rush -already failed because Noone is doing a full run anymore
Mission- Meeting the same boss for million times. Only first mission give the best experience.
Earth tower - to get the most powerful gear but for what??? for killing the next mobs?

Arena - has not been applied…Gear and level is neutralized. Even if it is applied; why do we need to farm the powerful gear?

Guild vs Guild : gear would be neutralized also?

What make the game competitive is the conflict between two sides. examples, red and blue or white and black side to compete between each other, but now the game content become like a harvest moon. fighting with the monster…

If we would like to play with the intelligent competitors. do you think IMC’s AI is that intelligent???

if you want to know how players is now with monster, the go DINA BEE farm all the way to the right, and you will find a bunch of AFK sorcerers farming silver like robot…

Is that what IMC want the game to be?

Plus,

The value of the guild tower has already ruined as the cost is reduced from 1 million to 100,000 silver. Nobody really protecting their tower anymore.

Guild tower is worthless to them as they can rebuild with 100,000 silver.

IMC should listen to this post. As you guys would remember, what make Ragnarok becomes a legendary game and last for decade; what make the game a competition.

Guild war is the answer.

Keep babysit the harvest moon player, and you already know from the consequences. Learn from the past and other games… that is why the case studies always useful.

Thank you

#34

Im hoping something more like so:

Long live FA.

#35

People who want pvp should declare war against those who also enjoy pvp so they actually hava a challenge and actually willing competitors and leave the ones who don’t want to pvp alone and don’t cry about neutrality. Why do people insist on “pvping” with someone who doesn’t want to pvp? This is not a pvp game, dont force your pvp-desires on others. Those who can pvp can still declare war on eachother.

About the other reasons (people placing towers in annoying locations, constantly switching guilds in order to exploit neutrality) there should be other solutions.
Against guild-switching there could be a limit how often you can join a guild per week, to prevent excessive guild-hopping.

However : the 3 war limit is stupid.

2 Likes
#36

I see no valid points in your thread. In fact you made it immediately apparent that you’re clearly talking out of your ass and not even a guild master or you’d know you can’t place towers near NPCs so there is no way to grief with them by blocking statues or quests. Try again when you actually know what you’re talking about.

The idea that you need more than 6 guilds involved in a war is ludicrous considering the game can’t even handle 2-guild wars if even half their members show up. Guilds can piss people off but so can people not in guilds and so can guilds that don’t place towers “warmongers can swap back and forth into alt guilds blah blah blah” again you’re talking out your ass, this is never going to happen, and if anything is a good argument FOR neutrality.

And of course while it wasn’t mentioned in your OP the thread is full of people claiming neutrality is cowardice. Which is, of course, the opinion of a child who glorifies conflict for no gain or reason. What’s cowardice is hiding your tower in some obscure location and then declaring war on a bunch of guilds, hiding until they’re offline and then destroying their towers. That’s been the sole extent of any guild wars I’ve been involved in. Sometimes they’ll hang around the tower for a while after declaring and we’ll show up and destroy them, eventually they get sick of dying and go hide but inevitably once nobody is around to defend they’ll just destroy the tower.

We could sit on our tower 24/7 and never sleep, sure. We could go scour the entire world map looking for which remote corner they tucked their tower in and destroy it, but that doesn’t ‘win’ the war anyway. We could just hang around all of the dungeon entrances and kill their players to prevent them from doing dungeons until they concede (assuming they don’t just go destroy our tower while we’re doing these things). But the bottom line is, there is absolutely no value or purpose in a guild war right now for anyone but bored children.

I’ll be setting my guild to neutral and turning it off on occasion for some agreed-upon PVP in the future. I’ll also be buying a great big bag of ice to turn the tears of cowardly griefers into a refreshing summer beverage. Sorry you won’t be able to just avoid any real fighting and freely destroy my tower any more. The system is ■■■■ and there’s no gain in it, so why would I participate? There are plenty of games that do PvP well, I can just play those.

5 Likes
#37

lmao they killed their own game with this, nice imc nice.

1 Like
#38

It was focused on pvp and its pvp was the worst crap ever created in a MMORPG.

#39
#40

I’m guildless and I talk ■■■■ to everyone… How is anyone going to take revenge on my neutrality?

You need to take this whole guild war thing less serious. It’s not about taking revenge on people you hate. It’s still a game and they’re opponents, not enemies.